Blindsided at breakfast!

[Newname699032]

So I'm part of a wider friendship group of 6 women. We became friends through our children. I'm closest to two of them much more so than the others. One of others I find tricky sometimes. She's very opinionated and can make comments that I think comes across as critical.

Today at a breakfast with our kids, myself and one of the women I'm closest to whom I will call F, and this other woman whom I will call N, were sitting together chatting. I find in this dynamic when the 3 of us are together (our children do the same hobby), they talk the most and I feel my voice is often unheard (have felt like this my entire life so I'm fully aware that that is my 'stuff'). They will unintentionally (I assume) talk over me or not always really respond to things I say.

So, today the topic of one of our mutual friends marriage came up. Admittedly I am probably feeling a bit drained and frustrated as I have been supporting one of the other two women that I'm closest to navigate her marriage difficulties and now another one if going through problems. From mine, and others perspective, the common denominator here seems to be the men being disrespectful and basically checked out of the marriages and family life. I also feel quite passionate about this topic as 1. It has been present in my life as I support my friend and 2. I have some experience of my own marriage challenges. 3. I feel sorry for all the kids involved.

F was telling a story about someone else she knows and giving their example. I did interrupt her/try to interject my opinion (I suppose unlike most of the time, I persevered in giving my opinion this time) when N, in my opinion, quite angrily and aggressively, physically turned towards me and said 'can you stop being so defensive and let her finish'. I was absolutely gobsmacked and felt like I'd been punched in the gut. I responded that I wasn't being defensive which she double downed on and said I was. I repeated that I wasn't and continued making my point. All the while feeling almost sick at this confrontation. We had finished our food at this point anyway so paid and left. F text me afterwards to say that she was shocked by the whole thing and it was all completely uncalled for by N.

I genuinely still feel shaken by this interaction and don't think I can be around N anymore. I think I'm just venting and lookong for validation that N was completely out of line here? She could surely have just said something like, 'let F finish, I want to hear this', in a calm, normal tone?!

Thanks if you read it all!

It’s pointless asking a bunch of strangers on here what they think, there are many who will get pleasure out of making you feel worse. You friend F said that friend N was out or order so I’d take that as the validation you need, however I feel she could have said something at the time.

F was telling a story about someone else she knows and giving their example. I did interrupt her/try to interject my opinion (I suppose unlike most of the time, I persevered in giving my opinion this time)

validation for what?

Someone not being too British or too polite and pointing out how rude that is?

It's hardly a conversation when everybody is trying to talk over each other.

Well nobody here was (unless A,B,X,Y, Whoever) are on MN, so it's a pretty pointless statement to make.

If you know the answer, why are you asking the question.

Take the aggression elsewhere.

Stop gossiping about other people's marriages.

Interrupting was rude.

This.

I have to admit though it's because over the years despite no major issues we've had people do this with us - it tends to embolden people to talk shit at you.

Worst example had us divorcing as DH was working away due to circustances - DD1 who later found to be ND got sat next to a girl she liked but who own issues clashed with DD1 easiest thing to do was move them but teacher refused and isnsted it was not school at all because we were divorsing - wouldn't belive me when sat that was rubbish - later found all three kids had been told this as "fact" and were upset. DH was livid - but made a point of coming to playground with me for pickup whenever he could. DD1 situation did get resloved in end via HT - but that teacher was bloody awful for rest of the year to DD1 and me.

Also interesting that couples over year held up as better than us or an example have all really acrimoniously split - so I think a lot of this "insight" is just rubbish.

I suspect OP and N were both rude - but they don't get on so it's more an issue - F sounds two faced and weak - and I wonder how much gets back to the couples under discussion via her.

That's my feeling too.

When I'm with one certain friend we can have various conversations going on and we keep interrupting each other. We laugh about it. Doesn't happen in a bigger group. It's just the way our personalities are. And we see each other every couple of months so have lots to catch up on.

I'd try and avoid N. Her vibe sounds off.

people disagree, you feel funny because you are a people pleaser.

its fine, and F is a stirrer as she didn't speak up in the moment or say she didn't feel interrupted. just text you afterwards like a snake.

If F didn't mind she could've said no you go on, but she didn't.

the only aggressive is one is the person aggressively interrupting.

That's a lot of drama over something that is none of their business anyway.

Sounds like N has her own triggers around being interrupted or not having the full attention (of F) during a conversation. Perhaps she felt unimportant as a child but learn to respond with aggression/ harsh critique rather than passively feeling hurt about it?

A good way to respond is to remain calm (and in control) and call out what you see. 'Did you intend to sound aggressive then N?'

Remember her outburst says more about her than it does you. I wouldn't give her the satisfaction of acting any differently when you next see her, but have a few lines up your sleeve for the next time she cuts you off or is rude. Jefferson Fisher has a podcast with some excellent suggestions!

That's how I read it too.

I think N who often talks over OP, saw a chance to put her back in her place.

There's no point making a big deal of it OP. You've had some validation from F... I think I'd just take a step back from N... stand up for yourself more with her in future, but be a lot less involved with her, if you are finding her manner abrasive.

The friendship circle does sound quite gossipy though, which is less than healthy... Maybe start up some new interests and expand your friendship circle outside that dynamic - it would be more satisfying for you. .

I agree with this. op can tell there is a different dynamic with this other person and she was right. This was the other person’s chance to have a go.

It’s a mumsnet post - get a grip.

Why did N need to be the enforcer in a supposedly equal discussion? Surely F could have said “yeah hang on” if she was bothered. It’s weird that N really weighed in…. Steer clear of her in future.

you ok dear?

Perhaps you need to ask yourself the same question?

I don't think N likes you very much either. I wouldn't bother with her again for the simple reason that you have very different ideas about how conversations go. Neither is necessarily wrong, but you don't sound well suited.

To feel sick and shaken because someone challenged you is an over reaction. While you may have felt unheard as a child, you’re an adult now and clearly able to make yourself heard. Only you know if the friendship is worth working on, in my friendship group that kind of challenge would have ended in the group acknowledging they always talk over each other and a bit of teasing not “how will I deal with her in future”. You recognised you were talking over her, surely the easiest way to resolve it is to say you were, but you really were trying to say X.

That was my take on it: Bitches.
Bitchin about other people's marriages.
Bitchin at each other.
Coming onto MN to bitch about each other.
All of them WBitches.

So ...... as usual, my view is different to everyone else's. I think that you are being unreasonable because the important skill is listening, not speaking (read Covey "The 7 Habits of Successful People"). Stop worrying about getting people to listen to you, and start worrying about understanding what they say.

I discovered this for myself decades ago when I went on a corporate high-fliers course with teams competing against each other. In my team the boys were all out-talking to other in order to be Alpha & lead the team, but I noticed that the real leader was a girl who said little, but when she did speak, everyone listened.

Stay happy in your role, speak less and be heard more.

Well if this is the norm and people interrupt each other then why suddenly a regular interruptor has a problem that a silent listener has learnt to follow their suit. Based on the dynamics of the group and N deciding to speak on behalf of F, rather than let her say something if she felt offended, I would say op is not the rude one in this group.

I think that you just said something similar to my own comment, but in a different way, so I agree!

I will give you the validation you want because I have noticed this scenario played out many times, a usually domaninating party getting really offended when roles are reversed even in small dose. They accept you to take their rude behaviour but won’t take what they give.

i would suggest you tell N that you found her reaction to you very rude when it was not her who was being interrupted. Also tell her you had been tolerating this behaviour from them, speaking over you and not responding to what you say, so based on all this you would want to distance from the group. Also, mention you have no ill will and don’t want to impact kids’ friendship and you would be polite and civil but you cannot be a close friend with them. Basically these 3 points - their past behaviour, F’s overreaction with aggression and kids friendships write / speak in the way you are comfortable. Keep it civil and polite for sake of friendship but no need to be their marriage counsellor or a close friend.

Now you are doing exactly what you accused op of - contradicting yourself.

Decide are you someone who never gossip about others or idly curious?

Are you alright? You are obsessing about something thats very normal. She felt she was interrupting but F who also tends to interrupt unintentionally didn’t care/ saw it as an interruption.