Blindsided at breakfast!

[Newname699032]

So I'm part of a wider friendship group of 6 women. We became friends through our children. I'm closest to two of them much more so than the others. One of others I find tricky sometimes. She's very opinionated and can make comments that I think comes across as critical.

Today at a breakfast with our kids, myself and one of the women I'm closest to whom I will call F, and this other woman whom I will call N, were sitting together chatting. I find in this dynamic when the 3 of us are together (our children do the same hobby), they talk the most and I feel my voice is often unheard (have felt like this my entire life so I'm fully aware that that is my 'stuff'). They will unintentionally (I assume) talk over me or not always really respond to things I say.

So, today the topic of one of our mutual friends marriage came up. Admittedly I am probably feeling a bit drained and frustrated as I have been supporting one of the other two women that I'm closest to navigate her marriage difficulties and now another one if going through problems. From mine, and others perspective, the common denominator here seems to be the men being disrespectful and basically checked out of the marriages and family life. I also feel quite passionate about this topic as 1. It has been present in my life as I support my friend and 2. I have some experience of my own marriage challenges. 3. I feel sorry for all the kids involved.

F was telling a story about someone else she knows and giving their example. I did interrupt her/try to interject my opinion (I suppose unlike most of the time, I persevered in giving my opinion this time) when N, in my opinion, quite angrily and aggressively, physically turned towards me and said 'can you stop being so defensive and let her finish'. I was absolutely gobsmacked and felt like I'd been punched in the gut. I responded that I wasn't being defensive which she double downed on and said I was. I repeated that I wasn't and continued making my point. All the while feeling almost sick at this confrontation. We had finished our food at this point anyway so paid and left. F text me afterwards to say that she was shocked by the whole thing and it was all completely uncalled for by N.

I genuinely still feel shaken by this interaction and don't think I can be around N anymore. I think I'm just venting and lookong for validation that N was completely out of line here? She could surely have just said something like, 'let F finish, I want to hear this', in a calm, normal tone?!

Thanks if you read it all!

But we’ve established she’s a people pleaser so she would say that (to you) wouldn’t she.

Just accept a bit of the blame and then stop worrying about it. Nothing you can do to change anything.

I'd say N's got an attitude towards you. How does she treat you in general? If F was surprised at N, then I think you can be reassured by that.

Don't let N get the better of you.

Well, stop interrupting people then. It’s horribly rude, and I’d guess from the frustration in N’s reaction that this is probably something you do often and she’s had enough of listening to you do it.

You were all gossiping. I don’t think any of you come out of it looking shiny.

For conflict avoidant types, OP's reaction is very normal. I'd feel the same.
I'd drae back from anything to do with N. She doesn't sound very nice.

Not helpful but this sounds like an episode of Real Housewives of Wherever. So much drama out of nothing. I agree with other PP recommending the 'let them' theory, just sounds like you and N dont get along and that's OK.

N sounds like a bitch. Neither rod you like each other. Perhaps stop spending time with her.
by the way I totally get ‘Interjecting but not everyone does.

But you DID interrupt, persistently. You told us so yourself.

You’ve also told us that F is a huge people pleaser. Why do you assume it’s N she’s trying to pacify and not you?

I’ve been in a very similar situation with two other women who’d known each other 20 longer and were really close. It’s not an easy dynamic to describe if you’ve not been the crowded third person in the group. I took a big step back personally, I don’t think you’re BU at all in feeling gut punched and don’t think being extremely upset is irrational at all here. See people you feel comfortable with and time to yourself. Sod them until they contact you.

I wouldn't be descending into the dust of the arena and being more assertive with N. In fact, you should let future statements simply wash over you. You will never convince somebody who is as opinionated as N seems to be. You will only get a reputation as the difficult one. The late Queen's comment that recollections may vary or, in your case, opinions may vary would be my approach as well as avoiding her as much as possible without being obvious about it. By the way, you will never convince a woman after a certain age who consistently picks dud men to change her approach - she may agree intellectually with you about the dudness of the men - but she will keep picking the duds. I mean I got over men with commitment issues after one relationship when I discovered he really did mean not to get married or at least not to me. One of my friends was lovely but she kept picking losers - she ended up financially ruined thanks to the last one.

Would you now.

Blimey breakfast is for quietly drinking coffee and trying to wake up not all this drama

It sounds like a nest of vipers (discussing other people's marriages) so not surprised someone got bitten. I wonder how the other women whose marriages were being discussed would feel about it if they knew? There's a mean girls vibe to the group.

Maybe find new and much less gossipy friends to hang out with.

I’ve had that happen to me, @Newname699032 - by my own family and when I wasn’t interrupting.
I get the distinct impression that whether or not you interrupted, this person would have bitten your head off.

It IS humiliating, and I think they enjoy humiliating you - or anybody they don’t like or find inferior.

Just stay far away from folks like that.

It's not N's place to jump in and police you. Who does she think she is?

F is probably trying to appease you both, as you were admittedly a little rude yourself.

I doubt it will work to confront N about her telling you off, as you would need F's support, which she won't. It will also cause a rift in the whole friendship group, which you will be blamed for (this is the way with people who are quiet and don't speak up - we're always blamed and treated as outrageous when we finally speak).

In future, just be cordial when you have to interact but avoid N as much as you reasonably can without making it obvious. Try grey rocking, which is a way of responding politely and neutrally without giving anything at all for them to react to. Also try to strengthen your ties and bond with all the other friends as much as possible - do small favours for them and meet them one on one. Then if N tries to turn on you or becomes unbearable, you will be in a stronger position.

No, it’s obvious she doesn’t mean ‘other people’s marriages.’ She explained she means men behaving in a certain way. I think a lot of people commenting here sound like the aggressive friend.

Honestly? I’m not trying to “bully” you, but I do genuinely think the way you describe this interaction is hyperbolic. You speak as if something significant like a crime has occurred. With respect, you may benefit from seeking counselling; not over this incident per se, but over your reaction to it. The childhood issues you mentioned, likely plays into how you digest things and how you interact with people. You admit you’re socially awkward a perhaps there’s things you can explore to improve your social skills and feel more comfortable.

Personally, I have a similar dynamic with one of my friend’s friends as you do with “N”. I notice it but I honestly don’t care enough to engage with it. I keep enough of a distance from her to not have to deal with her. Ie I wouldn’t do what you did, and discuss strong views I have with her, or my views on other people’s marriages, because I don’t see her as a friend. I am bland/clinical around her instead..

Ultimately from what it sounds like your mutual friend isn’t going to stop inviting her to things. So either you disengage with this group of people, or you find a way to rise above it. Given what you have described, it’s unlikely you’re going to get an apology. I mean, you admit you are drained/frustrated about the marriage situation and you have passionate views about it, you very well may have come across as defensive and over invested when you kept insisting on raising your point. I mean, the behaviour you describe of interrupting her, interjecting your opinion, persevered in giving your opinion, continued making your point etc could be described as poor social etiquette.

I get it OP, in some friendship groups you have to interrupt a bit to get a word in edgeways at all. And her reaction sounds as though she was just waiting to have a go. Like a lot of posters on here.

I’d feel a bit freed by it though, gloves are off, you don’t need to pretend you like her now.

Some people on here must be being intentionally obtuse. It's not that strange to feel physically ill when you're unexpectedly faced with an aggressive attitude from someone who is supposed to be a friend, even if she's not a good friend. Some people react more emotionally to relatively mild confrontation than others do. People are different. Shocking, I know.

I agree with PP that it sounds like N didn't like you trying to be heard. She's used to talking over you and having you quietly take the back seat in the conversation. By speaking up, you've asserted yourself, and Ms Queen B (not 'Bee') didn't like it. I'd suspect that she has a problem with you. Either that or she was just in a particularly bitchy mood.

As for the gossip, OP says she and the other friends have been supporting the friends with the marriage problems, so it's not strange that they're invested and discussing it.

I think I'd try carrying on much as usual with N, if she behaves with civility the next time you see her. I certainly wouldn't cosy up to her, but you should be able to continue to have a normal, casual 'friendship', when the situation throws you together, unless she's off with you after this. I wouldn't back down from asserting myself in conversations or allow her to chastise me. Stand up for yourself if you feel you're in the right. Don't start arguments, of course, but don't back down from defending yourself if need be. With any luck, she'll realise you aren't having any of it and back off.

I would just let it go. I wonder if N finds the topic sensitive or was sick of it at that point. Just lashed out at whatever target presented. If it is a one-off and N has been ok up to this point, I wouldn’t make any more issues about this. Good luck!

You need to distance yourself from this group, they aren’t your kind of people and life is too short to waste like this. N especially doesn’t respect your opinions.
You also need to work on yourself as you really shouldn’t be seeking validation in this situation. You were there. You know what N is like. You know this has been brewing for some time. You know you can’t change N. The joy of being an adult is we don’t have to spend time with who we don’t like and we don’t have to pretend to like them either.

This sounds like a difficult dynamic.

"They will unintentionally (I assume) talk over me or not always really respond to things I say"

Basically you are the "third wheel" in this set-up, so I'd remove myself and find new friends because these people don't sound either nice or friendly.

Yes I completely agree with this post and sympathise with your predicament OP.

I’ve been in your situation- not exactly but very similar

My feeling, coming from experience, is that when previously passive people speak up, some other people around them
dislike it and want to keep
them in their place. It’s the same sort of thing I think when a previously fat person diets and becomes ‘normal’ weight. Cue cries like ‘anorexic’ and ‘it doesn’t suit you!’ etc etc

Ive been the same in my life, OP, regarded as passive and lacking in confidence. It’s MUCH more difficult if you’re perceived this way to stand your ground I think, and takes a lot more determination.

I was in a work place with someone like the obnoxious N - me and another bloke, John were having some teasing ‘banter’ and I said something negative to him in JEST - not personal or offensive - and my obnoxious ‘N’ then made a point of saying “John was only joking”.

Wtf??????!!!
I at one point blanked my
N’ deliberately cos I was sick of her and her response was

“Is SHE alright??!” - John immediately went to rescue her and implied I was in a mood over something else - that is - Princess N’s feelings must not by hurt!!
But the reality was I was ABSOLUTELY SICK TO THE BACK TEETH OF MY ‘N’!!

Makes me feel bitter still if I’m being honest

N sounds like a control type and didn’t like your strength emergi. Do not drop out of the group because of this!