Blindsided at breakfast!

[Newname699032]

So I'm part of a wider friendship group of 6 women. We became friends through our children. I'm closest to two of them much more so than the others. One of others I find tricky sometimes. She's very opinionated and can make comments that I think comes across as critical.

Today at a breakfast with our kids, myself and one of the women I'm closest to whom I will call F, and this other woman whom I will call N, were sitting together chatting. I find in this dynamic when the 3 of us are together (our children do the same hobby), they talk the most and I feel my voice is often unheard (have felt like this my entire life so I'm fully aware that that is my 'stuff'). They will unintentionally (I assume) talk over me or not always really respond to things I say.

So, today the topic of one of our mutual friends marriage came up. Admittedly I am probably feeling a bit drained and frustrated as I have been supporting one of the other two women that I'm closest to navigate her marriage difficulties and now another one if going through problems. From mine, and others perspective, the common denominator here seems to be the men being disrespectful and basically checked out of the marriages and family life. I also feel quite passionate about this topic as 1. It has been present in my life as I support my friend and 2. I have some experience of my own marriage challenges. 3. I feel sorry for all the kids involved.

F was telling a story about someone else she knows and giving their example. I did interrupt her/try to interject my opinion (I suppose unlike most of the time, I persevered in giving my opinion this time) when N, in my opinion, quite angrily and aggressively, physically turned towards me and said 'can you stop being so defensive and let her finish'. I was absolutely gobsmacked and felt like I'd been punched in the gut. I responded that I wasn't being defensive which she double downed on and said I was. I repeated that I wasn't and continued making my point. All the while feeling almost sick at this confrontation. We had finished our food at this point anyway so paid and left. F text me afterwards to say that she was shocked by the whole thing and it was all completely uncalled for by N.

I genuinely still feel shaken by this interaction and don't think I can be around N anymore. I think I'm just venting and lookong for validation that N was completely out of line here? She could surely have just said something like, 'let F finish, I want to hear this', in a calm, normal tone?!

Thanks if you read it all!

Good grief, people, never interrupting is for children and structured debates. Normal adult conversation consists of 'overlays' which are, basically, participants interrupting in a relevant way - which is what OP did.

I understand where you're coming from, OP, and well done on the self-confidence work! Your feelings about N's reprimand seem a bit intense, though. Try to channel that Frozen song. I'd give her more chances - and keep 'interrupting' when you've got something to add - to see if she calms down a bit She may just have been having a rough day.

Sometimes people just don't get on. Maybe N finds you really annoying, just like you dislike her as well. You clearly don't see eye to eye or just have clashing personalities and that's fine and normal.
You got on her tits, she offended you, perhaps time to just call it a day as "friends" and just be people who go to the same group and who are polite to each other when necessary.

A great pity F didn’t speak up at the time! She took the easy route and messaged you later siding with you. She strikes me as wanting a bob each way, ie keeping in with both of you. Hells bells this sounds like playground stuff.

Going forward I’d give N space, don’t let her drive you out. Whether or not you were rude, I wasn’t there so won’t comment. But it does sound as if N is more outspoken than F and yourself. And quite frankly that can get on yr wick, one person holding the floor.

My advice....google Mel Robbins
#letthem

I think you should proceed in the knowledge that N is a person you don't much care for, and who may behave in a way that offends you, and plan how to deal with that.
You have two main approaches I think. First, to be polite but detached and let her wash over you. Second, to fight fire with fire and give her back as good as you get.
What I'd strongly advise you against doing is getting it out of proportion and letting one person become the defining part of the group for you. You have four other friendships there and any drama arising from this is going to effect them all.
This includes resisting the temptation to talk about N to the others. Once this starts, the group's ruined because everyone is talking behind each others backs then one tells another and on it goes until there's no trust.

Yes this, is F a people pleaser who will take the side of whoever asks?

Also, you’ve given a lot of irrelevant info in your OP, it’s long winded, do you witter a lot?

In terms of N it sounds like you’ll never be best buddies, but that’s fine. Just remain civil on the occasions you see her.

OP, you still haven't told us who was lying?

You say you interrupted and then persevered and F says you didn't.

Which one is true?

Why are you sitting around gossiping about other people? Incredibly tacky and inappropriate.

If F was shook by the whole thing she should have spoken up and defended you to N but she didn’t. At least not to where N could see her sticking up for you.

I agree.

It doesn't sound like a very healthy friendship group, not something I would fit into easily nor would I want to.

If you kept saying you weren't being defensive, you were being defensive. :-)

Let it go now and avoid them in future. Do you really need to have breakfast together?

N sounds like a bully, as do many of the people who have responded to you on here, OP.

And the best thing to do with bullies? Ignore them.

You were there. You know what happened and how everyone spoke. If your gut feeling is that N was disproportionately rude and cruel, let your future actions towards her be guided by that, and that alone.

I, too, am often spoken over by people. I think it is because I am quite softly spoken and gentle in my demenour - I have even been told I have a gentle face! I like the fact that I am seen as calm and kind and easy to talk to on the whole, but occasionally it pisses me off when people don't listen, and I do insist on making my point! And most decent people are fine with it.

But bullies really don't like it when you step outside your lane.

Fuck them, OP! (Not literally.)

And also done by almost everybody in the entire world.....

OK a few things:

I was asked twice about who was lying? Nobody was lying - as a pp said, conversations ebb and flow and I gave my input. In my opinion N would have preferred me to stay quiet and preserve the status quo - hence her anger at me not doing so.

And yes, I agree that I wish F had spoken up too at the time. That stings. And she is absolutely a people pleaser. Lovely, but will always stay neutral in fear of upsetting the applecart.

Actually the person I feel the most sorry for is the woman whose marriage was being discussed over breakfast.

And the other woman whose marriage problems has 'drained and frustrated' the OP.

It comes across as a crass form of entertainment.

Maybe it's subjective? Like most social interactions.....

Why your burning need to know? Can you explain how it will help the OP deal with her dilemma please, your asking this?

(It must be your intention to be helpful, after all).

Sometimes interrupting is part of a normal conversation in a group setting with lots of voices to be heard. Maybe you were interrupting inappropriately, maybe you weren't - I don't see that as the issue here. N sounds like a dominator and while it may be less noticeable in the group of 6 setting, in the group of 3 the dynamic is that N has place you at the bottom of the pile.

I don't tolerate such situations anymore. If it suits you to sit with them to eat breakfast after the activity (e.g. if it is fun for your children), do so and nod along to the conversation (inwardly thinking what a cow N is), maintain your inner peace, and go on your way. If you can't do this without feeling upset (understandable) let F know you are keeping your distance from N going forward after the "incident" so won't stay for breakfast. You can find other ways to cultivate your friendship with F.

Even if she was rude, feeling sick and shsken is an overreaction.

But how can both these things be true? 😳

"I did interrupt her/try to interject my opinion (I suppose unlike most of the time, I persevered in giving my opinion this time"

And

"I did apologise to F if I was interrupting her. She insisted that I wasn't."

Do you and your circle (family, friends) never discuss the personal lives of others you know?

Fair play if you don't - very high-minded of you - but you must know that's highly unusual.

After all, look at this site! Apart from a few topics, it more or less exists for us to all get our fix discussing the problems of people we don't know!

This thread here, the one you are on, for example.....

This is a chat forum.

We're all killing time.

You may read threads and have a burning need to know things, but most of us are just idly curious and engaging with the subject.

Ahh I feel seen! No, in all seriousness I fully get what you mean and I can absolutely relate to that.

In fact, even me posting this is further evidence of me seeking validation when I dont actually need it. I can listen to my gut and trust myself. I'm actually quite a social person though and do like hearing other perspectives.

Oh, and all this focus on us talking about other marriages. Yeah, that can get messy but we were talking about a mutual friend going through a very tough time with her husband. Naturally going to come up.

Very obviously, it can be both true that OP felt she interrupted, and apologised for it, and that F didn't perceive that, so insisted she wasn't interrupting.

Why is that hard to grasp?

Yeah, I can't remember ever getting together with a group of friends to 'passionately discuss' 2 of their failing marriages.

If that's your bag then fair enough but it's not unusual to get together with friends and not discuss the personal lives of those who aren't even present at the time.

The key word would be 'if' here. If, I was interrupting her. IF, she experienced it as such. Which she said she didn't.

But you said you did interrupt her?

It's basically what your entire opening post is about.

That's what led to all the shaking and overreacting when you were pulled up about it.