Trans woman in Riot Women! WTF?

[OneBadKitty]

I usually love anything by Sally Wainwright, but what was she thinking by have a trans-woman in a band called Riot Women that is supposed to be full of menopausal women singing about HRT and other female related issues?

Pronouns are words we use to replace a noun. If we are talking about a male person we use ‘he’, a female person we use ‘she’ if we don’t know the sex of a person or there is more than one.

No one can change sex, therefore no one needs to change the words they use when talking about others.

No one ‘owns’ their pronouns. HTH.

Yes, there are some people that have a very misguided sense of being one of the good guys but are arguing against the interests of women.

Interesting you mention social contagion. The heavy promotion of trans ideology, especially in schools and universities has led to children and young people being irreversibly harmed.

No one said that set was a women only space or even that the series was women only, obviously there are men as part of the women’s lives.

I’ll say it again as many PPs seem to struggle to understand that marketing a series as being about mid life menopausal women (what a rare thing) and then shoehorning trans ideology in for no apparent reason is what is being objected to. Given the numbers involved it would be extremely rare for a group of older women to be hanging out with a young trans identifying man and as PPs keep pointing out there are many big topics that affect women that could be dealt with in that series.

Given the harassment and exclusion of real life lesbians in Hebden Bridge by trans activists I think it is a very poor choice of subject.

I have no idea why you have apparently randomly decided that
a) I don’t care about women’s abortion rights in America and
b) highlighting the fact that men are appropriating women’s words, rights and sports is not part of the whole threat to women’s rights.

While we’re on abortion rights though, presumably you didn’t notice that the trans activists hampered the campaign to protect women’s abortion rights by making a huge fuss about trans and obscuring the language of the abortion campaigners so it became ‘people’ affected by lack of access to abortion, not ‘women’. Which imo did a lot of damage.

I think that more women in the US are suffering due to the adjudicated sex offender in the White House and the stripping away of a woman's right to choose whether to continue with an unwanted or unviable pregnancy

Thats’ your opinion. But why are you making it a numbers thing? Imo, removing the words and rights of 50% if the population is a pretty significant problem as is the removal of abortion rights. And as I’ve just mentioned trans activists hijacked much of the abortion campaign and imo hampered the efforts by obscuring the language to favour trans people.

What about the poor woman who was brain dead but kept alive for months against the family's wishes until they could deliver the baby? I don't know how you can even think of holding up the current US government as a bastion of women's rights. It's like a sick joke.

That sounds like a very tragic case. I have no idea why you think that highlighting the issues caused to women by trans activism means that I don’t care about abortion rights? 🤷‍♀️

Do point out anywhere where I have ‘held up the current US government as a bastion of women’s rights’. Maybe try reading what I have actually said.

I’m guessing that in you and other PPs starting to make up stuff I haven’t said and defending violent language against women as long as it’s said by the right type of man, you’ve run out of arguments.

While we’re on abortion rights though, presumably you didn’t notice that the trans activists hampered the campaign to protect women’s abortion rights by making a huge fuss about trans and obscuring the language of the abortion campaigners so it became ‘people’ affected by lack of access to abortion, not ‘women’. Which imo did a lot of damage

Jayz, as if you're blaming "trans activists" for "hampering" women's abortions rights! If we're going down the blame road, I think "gender critical" has done a lot of damage by interfering and undermining with women's bodily autonomy - for one example you only need to look at the argument "against" trans men to see that they aren't seen as having their own minds, they must just be lost and confused little women who need saving from themselves. How "GC" also constantly infantilise grown adults they don't agree with (constant on MN, you only need to look at Emma W threads)
If you start messing with autonomy for some, it's going to affect us all in some way at some point.

Given the harassment and exclusion of real life lesbians in Hebden Bridge by trans activists I think it is a very poor choice of subject

Pitch your own show idea/script then if you have one.
Like everyone else does.
Although if it didn't get accepted something tells me it couldn't possibly be because they didn't like it and it must be because they've fallen/got captured/woke gone mad 🙄😁

Maybe if people didn’t behave in such an anti-trans manner there would be less need for activism.

One more quick thought, at the risk of being accused again of ‘spamming’ (although I feel like I should have a right to reply to all those tagging and quoting me and that’s pretty much all I’ve done)

I have noticed that there is a consensus on this thread that agree the actor is male, he identifies as a woman but he is being acknowledged as male. This feels like huge progress as I think only a year ago this thread would have been full of PPs insisting that he was ‘really a woman’ and arguing that the word woman had been expanded to include such men and that there was nothing we could do about it.

So I am very heartened by that.

I think some may need to work on not insulting women expressing an opinion, as so far I’ve been told ‘no one gives a shiny shit’ what I think, that I’m being ‘obtuse and ridiculous’ and that ‘Fuck terfs’ is a perfectly acceptable thing to say in public, even when you’re a man in a show about women.

there are many big topics that affect women that could be dealt with in that series.

And are, you’re simply ignoring them.

presumably you didn’t notice that the trans activists hampered the campaign to protect women’s abortion rights by making a huge fuss about trans and obscuring the language of the abortion campaigners

Presumably I didn’t notice because it was insignificant.

It was quite well documented and discussed on FWR at the time. The trans activists preventing the use of clear language and diverting the focus to trans issues at points did absolutely nothing to help the campaign and as we well know the importance of messaging, caused a hindrance to the success of the campaign.

women's bodily autonomy - for one example you only need to look at the argument "against" trans men to see that they aren't seen as having their own minds

As many women who identify as men also have a high incidence of unresolved trauma, neurodivergence or other issues, and as soon as a trans identity is even mooted, any objective counselling is shut down and only trans affirmation is allowed (soon to become law) I’m not sure we should be cheering for women to destroy their health and fertility in this way without some very serious consideration of the consequences.

I certainly don’t accept that it counts in arguments about curtailing women’s ’bodily autonomy’.

I avoid FWR like the plague. It’s utterly toxic.

I think most people do - Mumsnet had to create a seperate space for the insane trans hate to stop it popping up all over the place. But still some makes its way onto another board and you find yourself wasting your time trying to reason with zealots. It is not worth it - they are like the anti-Meghan lot on the Royal Family board (another portal into madness) - too far gone down the internet rabbit hole.

There is an acknowledgement that the actor is Trans. You'd be blind to miss it. The point is, a lot of people do not care that the actor is Trans, or have a problem with the actor being Trans, and playing a Trans role... because a lot of posters on this thread do not see having a Trans Actor, playing a Trans Role on the TV as a problem.

Our feelings about Trans Activism, and TRA behaviour in the wider world, isn't the issue here, nor is our personal feelings about 'fuck terfs' on a t-shirt.

Most people have no issue in Trans people existing, on using their names the legally changed to, or the pronouns they ask us to use for them.. none of which are the issue on this thread.

The issue on this thread is the blatant anti-trans sentiment from some posters who simply object to seeing a Trans person on their TV screen, and have directly said they're not going to watch it because of the actor/role's existence in the drama.

only a year ago this thread would have been full of PPs insisting that he was ‘really a woman’ and arguing that the word woman had been expanded to include such men and that there was nothing we could do about it.

Really? Would it really?

I've been on MN for far too many years, have kept well-abreast of this topic, and there are really only 3-4 posters I can think of over the years (who I could name, but won't) who would insist the above.

For the 'insane trans hate'?! Or, refusal to accept that men can become women. It isn't hate it's fact.

They can dress as they like, wear as much make up as they like but it doesn't change facts and there is nothing hateful about stating that. The only hateful thing on that board are the TRA wankers who try to debate and fail every time.

I'd avoid that board too unless you're very intelligent and able to explain why facts don't matter. But yes, if unable to take on strong women just call them insane or toxic if it makes you feel better.

How very selective you are . Presumably you haven’t noticed that a large proportion of women in the US can no longer access abortion? Your laser focus on trans women to the exclusion of everything else affecting women’s rights is very unhealthy.

So you appeared to be very interested in the issue of abortion rights but now you say what was observed at the time as an aspect of the pro abortion campaign that prevented clear messaging was ‘insignificant’?

I’d say that a lack of clear messaging in any political campaign would affect its success - don’t you think?

Ah yes, FWR regulars. So very intelligent, incisive, factual and logical. That’s exactly how they’re perceived outside of FWR. (Sarcasm, in case you missed it)

Once again for the cheap seats:

Wearing a t-shirt that says “fuck terfs” is not engaging in violent language about women - and PPs saying it does again and again doesn’t make it so.

Accusing a named trans individual repeatedly of using violent language that threatens the safety of women, on a public forum, when it’s patently untrue, is transphobic.

Posters pointing out that you’re being transphobic are not TRAs, men, women haters, anti feminists etc. Just mn posters who recognise and are willing to name transphobia when it leeches out from FWR onto the main boards.

Squirrel - over there!

Let me see if I have this straight… you’re saying the transwoman actor playing a transwoman role should not be doing that because you feel that trans people asking for inclusive language were responsible for the removal of abortion rights in the USA.

The whataboutery and reaching is off the scale.

Absolutely. I have and will consistently continue to refer to transwomen as transwomen. That is what they are. However, I will also continue to refer to the transwomen I know by the pronouns they prefer because that is a matter of basic good manners.

I prefer to call it ‘pro reality’ and ‘pro womens rights’ but you do you. 👍

In order to be ‘trans’ while calling oneself a ‘transwoman’ one needs to be male. A male playing a woman in a ‘woman’s’ drama is what is being objected to.

nor is our personal feelings about 'fuck terfs' on a t-shirt.

but personal feelings on that t shirt have been expressed and PPs are attempting to minimise and excuse it.

The messaging has been quite clear enough for me to get it... I doubt it's different for most people. This is just another stick to beat trans people with.

you say what was observed at the time as an aspect of the pro abortion campaign that prevented clear messaging was ‘insignificant’?

Absolutely I do. If it had been significant I’d definitely have noticed it. And I didn’t.

A male playing a woman in a ‘woman’s’ drama is what is being objected to.

But that isn't what's happening. This is a transwoman playing a transwoman in a women's drama. I mean, unless you think a 'women's drama' should have a cast that is 100% female, this is just silly. And in any case, it's fiction. This outrage about a fictional televisino programme is not helping the cause of women's rights in the slightest.

I know it’s hard to believe but I you might have missed a quite a lot.

Until quite recently we could get deleted on here for calling people like that actor a man. There was widespread and vehement insistence that because he calls himself a woman, he IS a woman. Quite amazing really.