To think we spend too long ‘parenting’ now, and it’s turned young adults into eternal children?

[Nescafeneeded]

It’s all in the title really. I read endless posts on here from parents whose 20 something year old is ‘depressed’ and doesn’t work, and is waited on hand and foot by mum and dad (usually mum) all day who is convinced they need care and a softly softly approach.

AIBU to wonder if it’s a bit chicken and egg - these kids lives have been comfortable and cosseted for so long they’re failing to launch as they’ve never had to do anything through necessity, and this looks like depression in 20 year olds as they spend all their time gaming and on tech in their rooms etc?

I was a very depressed teen (CAMHS, SSRIs, self harm etc) but left at 18 with the contents of my child savings account and expected to find work and look after myself which I did, I’m now an independent and responsible adult. I really think if my parents had still ‘parented’ me at that age I would’ve just let them and never left home or done anything for myself.

I think it's a circular thing. We (parents of late teenaged children) were brought up to take responsibility for everything (actually, sometimes this was through a tual neglect).

Because we take responsibility for everything, we find ourselves taking too much responsibility for our children.

When our children have children, they may not take responsibility, because they never had to, therefore the pendulum swings back, as their children are forced to take responsibility for themselves.

A lot of young people don't want to work1 job let alone 3. In order to carry on living the same life you have to work and that's what young adults don't have the belly for. As my partner likes to say "They have no ambition". There is a family living across the road from us. Their 3 children are all 19 and over all working and living at home. The oldest bought himself a BMW 2016. My partner said to me that all 5 of them work and could put their money together to buy their forever home rather than a car that depreciates.

@Cherrytree86 what a stupid question

I think another dimension is that collectively as a society we've lost the ability to risk assess situations and instil coping mechanisms in our children to help them assess and mitigate risk - so we've become too protective of them. The proliferation of media and social media, which brings to stark reality the shittiness of the world around us, has made us scared to allow our kids to experience things. I've always focused on "this is highly unlikely to happen, but if it did, how do you think you could handle it?"

14yo ds is looking after 8yo dd this evening while dh and I go out. He knows that fires and robberies happen, but has a healthy awareness of risk, prevention and what he needs to do in those scenarios should the worst happen. He's developed a cool head, is incredibly sensible, and has demonstrated multiple times that he can react calmly to unforeseen circumstances in a range of scenarios (such as missing his bus). I know that his friends' parents look down their noses that we're leaving him in charge for a few hours. The reality is that he enjoys a bit of responsibility, we give him a bit of extra money for helping us out, and his relationship with his little sister is strong.

Life is crap for the young - they had covid and brexit wreck their lives and now AI is taking away job opportunities.

I think a lot of parents are too helicoptery but it's no good saying they need to get out into house-shares if they cant get a job and have no income.

I think that what you are actually talking about, OP, is not parenting for too long but not parenting in an efficient and age/maturity appropriate way.

I don’t think you should kick your kids out at 18 but my parents made it clear after Uni we were expected to get a job and pay our own way.
My MIL babied her sons (apart from my DH bizarrely) and in essence they re all 40 year old men who’ve been saved all their lives & don’t have sticking power in a job, or are 10 years behind everyone else because they were layabouts for years. It’s a bit sad really.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. That attitude worked to an extent back in the day but the world isn’t the same. You can definitely try hunkering down on personal responsibility and ignoring the current economic conditions and you might get lucky. But it’s not a personal moral failure if people aren’t managing to do this.

As an example, my DS has managed to fly the nest and eventually land comfortably with a lot of very hard work, but also natural talent, lots of good luck, plus moral support and advice from those around him. 3,000 graduates applied for the job he was offered. We all know how much luck came into play. He could just as easily be sleeping on our sofa and still job searching despite all that.

I agree the ere are too many stereotypes around age.

I see bad attitudes and good attitudes in people of all ages. Work this has declined since I started work - but it’s not just in younger workers. People of all ages have become more difficult. I think it’s a general societal shift, but because it wasn’t like this twenty years ago people just blame younger people.

The OP isn’t talking about withdrawing help and support from her adult children but rather expecting them to navigate normal day to day life and not outsource it to parents. So I’d sit down and discuss a work challenge with my dd, or talk through pension options or be a supportive shoulder after a break up. Take her to the airport if necessary or pick something up for her if I’m going that way. Cook a nice meal if she’s had a busy week. Challenge her assumptions too. What I won’t do is her cleaning, organising services for her car, be a general taxi or make decisions for her. She helps us out too-cooking a meal after a hospital visit, airport drop offs and pet sitting. The normal things family members do for each other. What we don’t do is treat her like a child.

No.

It's about appreciating what you have. Things obtained with very little effort are appreciated a whole lot less than things that were extremely hard to obtain. That's just a fact.

A bit like money.

Money given has no value. Money earned is money that has more value and meaning attached to it.

Again, that is just a fact.

FWIW my husband's aunt had her first at 41 owing to fertility troubles. That little baby is now in her mid-20s and her mother is in well into her 60s. They're both doing perfectly fine. I'll be 38 when I have my first after years of miscarriages and I'll be in my early 40s for my second and possibly third. It's just the way things work out.

Well people have high expectations now that can't be matched on leaving home. Why should they be able to afford their own flat? You get a grubby room in a shared house with sticky carpets and work your way up to better things.
And yes it's parents but also society generally. Let's face it if a teenager isn't allowed to go to a dentist on their own until over 16 how are they going to cope with doing anything for themselves? They're just not allowed to / brought up to it.

It is tough is it.

Kids are young but I am already saying « you will need to work, so do your best now so you have options. »

You’ve got to be a bit of a martyr (or utterly clueless) to permit that to happen, though. I have teen boys and both can and do cook regularly - clean up after themselves, vacuum, garden and do general chores. They accept it’s part of being in a family and of course they do moan now and again. They also have bank accounts and I’ve taught them the basics of money etc.

If you enable poor behaviour and don’t teach your children how to function, then of course they will end up feckless and unmotivated. Along with this is reaching then how to enjoy life, and allowing their individual personalities to flourish, so they have a zest for life and become healthy and well adjusted adults.

@YorkshireGoldDrinker

riiiiight….sorry but I have no idea what your aunts situation, or your situation, has to do with what OP is talking about! Can you explain?

It doesn't because I responded to YOU. Perhaps don't derail?

I don’t agree with this. I don’t remember any MH support when I was a teenager. It was never discussed at school. Looking back, one of my school friends was clearly anorexic but I didn’t realise it at the time, or even if I had I wouldn’t have had any idea what to do about it anyway.
When my parents went through a difficult divorce I didn’t talk about it to anyone, as I didn’t realise that actually that wasn’t a good experience for a 12 year old to go through.
When I was sexually harassed at 15 I told my mum but she didn’t talk to me about how I felt about it. I didn’t tell anyone else as I felt too ashamed.

Whereas now at my DCs schools they are given loads of information about MH support. Yes CAMHS has ridiculously long waiting lists but there are lots of other sources eg websites like Kooth, Young Minds. DSs school has a counsellor and they have regular talks and what to do if you are struggling with MH issues.

Also I think as parents we are now much more open about talking about these things, not like my parents ‘stiff upper lip’ generation.

I often see comments on MN ‘children nowadays are suffering due to a lack of MH support’. Yes it could definitely be a lot better but you can’t say that it’s worse than in the past.

Agree. Honestly there does seem to be a very rose tinted view of the 90s and early 2000s on here. When I was at secondary school the only ‘mental health support’ (and bear in mind, we didn’t even know that’s what it was, as ‘mental health’ wasn’t a phrase that existed until 10 years later) was our school nurse who was probably lovely but about 60, and mainly seemed pre occupied with warning about the dangers of smoking and pregnancy. There were no websites, no open chats, no signposting, no multi agency meetings, no reasonable adjustments and nobody was remotely interested in your mental state. My mum only got me referred as I stopped eating, sleeping and was inserting broken shards of glass into my wrists.

In terms of mental health you were either insane (like the homeless alcoholics you saw muttering to themselves or shouting at traffic), absolutely fine, or ‘depressed’ which you would probably snap out of at some point. There was no ASD, ADHD, EUPD, PTSD, PDA… all your problems were treated with a basic SSRI and declared ‘depression’.

In fact I actually remember reading the book written by Milly Dowler’s sister, where she discussed her own mental health after the abduction of her sister in the early 2000s. She wrote about how ‘trauma’ wasn’t a concept that existed and she was never offered any counselling or similar - people were baffled by what were clearly her panic attacks and PTSD, but there was no terminology to speak about it or address it properly. She was simply given a paper bag to breathe into when she had a panic attack and that was that. It seems unthinkable now, it was only 20 years ago.

"It's a very different world out there for kids now"

Compared to what? Our grandparents went to war

Completely agree

What a daft comment! But how typically Mumsnet. Maybe we could compare it to the turn of the 20th century or Victorian times if you like?

I mean compared to just a few years ago or to the time when most posters are referring - the time they were late teens/early twenties, so 1980's, 90's, 2000s.

But you knew that, you were just trying and failing to be "clever" 🙄

YABU. Every child/ young adult is different and on a different timeline. What is right for one, isn’t for another. It’s up to each parent to assess what is right for their child and support them as best as they can, which will look different for every family. I personally don’t agree with the whole ‘I left home at 18 with a bin bag of clothes and I’ve turned out just fine’ argument; great for you that you’ve managed to thrive through that, but it doesn’t mean that that is the only way, or the right way to do things. Surely we learn from our parents but try and improve upon this for our children? The phrase two wrongs don’t make a right springs to mind - just because you suffered doesn’t mean your children should!

My DC are 20 and 17. They both still live at home with us and are both still in education, one uni (commutes) one college. Of course we still parent them, and we buy the groceries and pay their car insurances...however, they have both had jobs from age 14, hospitality based mostly with some variation at times, both bought and run their own cars, and pay for their own social activities and clothes/toiletries etc. I think it would be unreasonable to have expected them at 18 to move out (although older one did have a live in job for a year at 18) and I don't believe by not doing so that we have turned them into eternal children. They come and go, often cook for themselves, do the majority of their own laundry and, with a fair wind behind them, will take the step to independence in good time. After all, I didn't fully leave home for good until the day I got married at 30...I'd be quite happy if they were the same!

Worst case scenario would be my elder brother. My parents babied him all his life and never prodded him to be independent.
He's now 55 yrs old, still living at home. He can't do laundry or cook a meal. Has no idea about bills or home insurance and panics if he thinks he has to do anything himself.
He is also no help to them with any household jobs, he just can't cope with any pressure. He will be utterly useless if they ever need any kind of care.

As I said, this is probably the worst case!