To think we spend too long ‘parenting’ now, and it’s turned young adults into eternal children?

[Nescafeneeded]

It’s all in the title really. I read endless posts on here from parents whose 20 something year old is ‘depressed’ and doesn’t work, and is waited on hand and foot by mum and dad (usually mum) all day who is convinced they need care and a softly softly approach.

AIBU to wonder if it’s a bit chicken and egg - these kids lives have been comfortable and cosseted for so long they’re failing to launch as they’ve never had to do anything through necessity, and this looks like depression in 20 year olds as they spend all their time gaming and on tech in their rooms etc?

I was a very depressed teen (CAMHS, SSRIs, self harm etc) but left at 18 with the contents of my child savings account and expected to find work and look after myself which I did, I’m now an independent and responsible adult. I really think if my parents had still ‘parented’ me at that age I would’ve just let them and never left home or done anything for myself.

It's the idea that a parent "should" make their child's lunch that I think is problematic. And from a time point of view it's really bloody useful not needing to make more packed lunches than necessary even if it takes a bit longer when they're first learning.

Ours did sometimes make dinner as teens but if not they were responsible for tidying away after.

In the last year of school they did all their own laundry including ironing school shirts etc.
It taught responsibility- no laundry =no clean clothes to wear and the consequences of that.

It’s not about being hard on them, it’s about teaching life skills, planning and consequences of action/inaction.

@Nescafeneeded do you have children? Just wondering.

I’m a bit older than you - when I was a teen people I knew were absolutely getting jobs and work experience via their parents, getting house deposits and cars from their parents etc into their 20s. I don’t think that’s new. For info, mine did not do any of those things. They were of the ‘turf you out at 18’ variety. Made me not feel very close to them, tbh.

My kids can cook and do some housework, but I will be here to support them and let them live at home as they wish, though we are likely to downsize and move once they finish school.

I do think things are harder now. Cost of living, the job market, AI starting to replace entry level jobs and the state of public services are all making things harder.

I would not like to see the extreme situation you depict, but I also don’t want to shrug if they’re struggling.

This!!! I worked with a 26 year old who ordered Deliveroo every lunchtime! She loved in an Aunties house with no rent, and said she would go supermarket shopping once or twice a month to treat her!! WTF!! She spent money on pumped lips and lashes and thought all the men in the office should treat her and bring food in. She also had a Mercedes on PCP. Basically spending all her wage on 'things' while not paying rent and board.
All went tits up when Auntie disapproved of a shag she bought home at 3am one night.

I don’t disagree about things like access to housing benefits being harder to get but when I graduated in 1992 none of my, mostly middle class, friends expected or did live in a studio flat to themselves!
They lived in a succession of house shares of varying degrees of grottiness well into their 20s, for a couple of them working in London this extended well into their 30s.

I do think expectations have changed for a lot of people, I know people in their 20s on average or below comes talking about how they “have to” replace the kitchen and bathroom before they move into their new flat or house when the particulars they are showing us just show them to be a bit outdated but perfectly serviceable. A lot of people don’t seem to be willing to make do for a while whilst they save and do things bit by bit, I do wonder whether our parenting has contributed to this.

I didn’t know anyone who lived outside of university accommodation except for the obligatory 2nd year in private student rentals. A couple of my friends’ children and some people my daughter knows lived in private rentals from the start because student accommodation is “grotty” or they couldn’t be expected to share a bathroom.

Wow. I'm 40, left home at 18, came back at 24 for 1 year then moved away again. Had a job since I was 16, went to uni and got a job after graduating. But I always knew I was welcome home whenever I wanted to go back. My parents have supported me throughout my life with whatever choice I've made. I've never asked for money but always know I can ask. Every time I go home my mum makes my breakfast, dinner, spoils me rotten and its never taken for granted - its called being a loving parent. All this bo**ocks about making kids resilient by teaching them life is hard, making them struggle - oh please we aren't living in the dark ages.

@MotherofPufflings I don't believe I ever said one should?

One benefit of being a Londoner is free school meals for all dc & even when it wasn't free we paid so it's really very rare that I have had to do packed lunches.

YANBU. I just had a look at house shares in my city. There are plenty, in decent areas, perfectly clean and fine ( better than the grotty places I lived!) for between 500 and 700 a month bills included. If a 20 year old is taking home 1500 that’s very doable.
More disposable income than I have right now anyway! Jobs are really hard to come by and yes young people have more obstacles than we did but if you have a job then the next step ought to be to find a place.
Ive helped and pushed and facilitated way more than my parents ever did, but I’m backing off now. There’s only one way to learn independence and that’s by actually being independent.

Id expect a 14yo to take turns making dinner for the family, yes.

The difference between packed lunch/dinner is who it's feeding. If it's just 1 person, they do it themselves. DS was making his own packed lunch for school by Y2. If it's for a group/family/more than 1, you take turns. My teens will make each other lunches if they're making for them selves. Making a sandwich - automatically ask if anyone else wants one. It's just common courtesy isn't it?

You’re talking about something completely different. Of course we spoil our kids when they come home.
But we also know they are capable of living an independent life because of what we taught them as teens.

I don't think it's just about not living away from home, though.
It's when your kids still live at home and you are still making dentist appointments for them, filling in job applications for them, and all that.

Fair enough not being able to afford to move out, but barring any specific needs, your children should be doing their own adult administration. Advice and assistance is one thing. Doing it all for them like they are still in primary school is another.

Because I learnt how to:
Cook safely, using an oven, boiling water etc. I also learnt that food took time and effort to prepare and clean away. It doesn't just 'appear' in front of me!
I learnt how to safely cross a road, stick to paths, not talk to strangers.
I learnt how to read a bus time table, plan my day so I could get home on time, take everything that I needed with me to go swimming etc otherwise I would miss out. A parent wouldnt save me every 5mins because I 'forgot' something.
I learnt to plan ahead and prepare.

So in answer to your question my life skills allowed me to get a job in a career that I absolutely loved age 16 because I outshine the other 20 odd, older candidates who lacked the confidence and independent thought that I had I guess....

No, I truly believe it was for the best. 18 is perfectly reasonable and I’m now far more independent, and happy, than my friends whose parents were much more enabling.

I lived at home after uni to save & my parents also gave me a large cash figure to get on the London property ladder (none of my peers bought without some form of help). So this would class as enabling surely?

It's made a huge difference to my financial stability & in turn my dcs. For me that's a positive.

I agree OP, I am not sure why so many people keep talking about rent, it's not really about kids moving out specifically, it's about kids becoming adult.

I think most kids go through a very strong streak of wanting to be independent at around age 15, which is also when they are typically most annoying to the rest of the family. I suspect this is the biological drive to separation and independence asserting itself. This is when kids should become more independent at school, get a job, and start to be significant contributors to the household. Not financially, necessarily, but their work should feel not just like "helping" but as if it is really part of making the household function and thrive.

So maybe that could be starting dinner after school, managing the yard work on weekends, taking a younger sibling on the bus to swimming class, or working at a job to earn their own spending money. What is possible will depend on the household and where people live, but the exact form isn't set in stone. It's about contributing to the common, not always being a recipient,

Most younger teens feel proud to help out and like the independence and responsibility. And once they have that, and maybe even are earning their own spending money, that is really motivating and empowering. In my experience parents see a lot of dividends in other parts of their kids lives. Of course they don't grow up immediately but there s a direction of travel.

And no, school work and clubs, for the most part, aren't quite the same, because they are usually still kids being a kind of recipient. (I will say this isn't set in stone, I've seen kids in a few activities like cadets really sprout general independence, but overall activities and hobbies don't seem to have the same effect.)

When kids are not feeling that kind of sense of contribution and independence by about 16, or even a bit before really, i think many become used to being recipients, it's like a bit of a developmental window is missed. They get used to the sense that they will be taken care of and that someone else is ultimately responsible for their well-being and that others need to take action to fulfil their needs.

It is a lot harder now for kids to get that independence overall at the right age - parents almost have to fight to allow those experiences to happen. Fight cultural expectations, among other things. And their own impulses to infantalise teens that are really capable of quite a lot. I do think it can be done though.

Yep I mentor young staff and their wants and needs very quickly hit a brick wall with me.
They are utterly convinced that their needs will trump everything else. They are generally lovely and learn quick though, but I cant help think it should have been given to them a bit younger by their parents

I didn't say you did, I was clarifying my original post as you seemed to have misunderstood what I was saying.

I don't get this high horse attitude of "I had to leave with x,y,z at 18 and I survived." Just because some people have to leave and have minimal family support, doesn't mean it's ideal.

If you are thrown out at that sort of age, you will have to just take whatever work you can get. This will then likely to become a self-fulfilling prophecy - eg. if you get a job in retail, you may work up to being a manager or something and there's nothing wrong with that for many people. But being supported at a critical time could also have meant you could have taken a more ambitious longer term strategy, rather than taking any job to pay the rent. Do you want your kids to survive, or really thrive? The "I'm done parenting, now you're 18 so get a job" attitude is such short-term thinking. Better to think about where they could be at 30 and how to get there. If that means further education or training, or letting them live at home a few extra years, so what? It will pay off in the medium to longer-term.

@Cherrytree86 but if you are all having the same lunch why would you tell the 14yo they have to make their own, whilst you make lunch for everyone else in the house? Obviously they can muck in with making lunch but seems odd to tell them to make their own. Wouldn’t tell DH to make his own if I was making it for the rest of the family.

I’ve never understood getting a child to do their own laundry either. That can’t be great for economies of scale. Again they can muck in with laundry but not have everyone do it independently

@Dissappearedupmyownarse but loads of adults can do those things without having to walk to school at 8.

How old are you can I ask? It would be unusual to employ a 16 yr old in a professional career these days.

@MotherofPufflings No, I just didn't understand the relevance as I didn't see anyone saying it was something that should be done.

I agree, I also think exposure to hard work or any work in teenagers is lower than ever which affects them when they try to enter the workforce for the first time. I got my first PT job not long after turning 15 (I’m 44 now) because my mum asked the manager when we were out for a family birthday meal and I’d started asking her for specific trainers etc that she thought I could be funding myself. Looking back that job taught me sooo much - a level of resilience re dealing with difficult people, the discipline of time keeping, burning your finger but sucking it up and getting on with it, sticking up for myself with angry chefs (took 2 years) etc. Virtually all of my high school peers had similar 21 hour a week min jobs at 15/16. Quitting because it was “hard” or we felt like it was violating our right to do fuck all just wouldn’t have entered anyone’s head. We wanted the money. However perhaps lack of readily available jobs plays a part as well as a more avoidant attitude to hard work.

@Nescafeneeded you do realise, that god forbid any of your DC go to university (as you seem to think that is a bad thing) the Government (depending which country you are in) expect you as parents help fund it

We did it for that year before leaving school as I said to help them learn.
If anyone was putting on a wash they would generally ask if anyone else had anything to make up a load so it was actually quite efficient.

@TempestTost I agree that paid work is great for fostering independence & responsibility but it's really hard to get jobs at 15/16 now.

I am sure that's part of it.

I've noticed though that in the rural area I live in, the majority of teens have some kind of job. Compared to when my siblings live in the city, where most don't, unless they are immigrant kids, in which care they usually do.

Interestingly the biggest issue for rural kids that I see is not getting their driving licence as young as used to be common so they can't drive to work. The main reason they don't are that there is no longer any school driving classes (which were a thing back in the 70s and 80s here, up into the early 90s,) and insurance companies and government regulations mean most kids need to take a drivers course. And they are not at all cheap and it holds a lot of kids back from accessing driving, and affects their job prospects.