Page 8 | Children asked to spy on parent

MrJonson · 2025-10-16T22:39:59+00:00

Hi All, Long time reader, first time poster here. 👋 I’ve been separated for just over a year. Not divorced yet but my ex has recently moved out of the former matrimonial home (FMH). I have three kids (12/12/8) and found out recently that my ex asked the 12 y/o to report to them in real time if they were ever left alone in the house or if they have late nights (time undefined) at my house. My seperation is fast becoming arbitrary and high conflict as I continue to set boundaries with the ex: Ex took kids to their longtime counsellor without telling me, moved them from their old GP to a new one, moved out of the FMH and cancelled all of the utilities, even those in joint names. Am I being unreasonable calling this behaviour out by saying the below via email? Where do people think I stand in the eyes of Family Court / CAFCASS if I call this out and set another boundary? ### I understand you have asked the children to inform you about aspects of their time with me. Children should never be placed in the middle of parental dynamics or made to feel responsible for monitoring or reporting on their parents. This is not in their best interests and must stop immediately. I will continue to keep you informed about anything important regarding their health, safety, or wellbeing, and I expect the same in return. The children are not intermediaries in matters between us; your behaviour must stop and this boundary must be fully respected. ### All views gratefully received, thanks!

Starwarsepisode3 · 17/10/2025 12:15

Butchyrestingface · 17/10/2025 12:13

You will always get the occasional erm, outlier but generally, I think it’s reasonable to assume someone with a male title/username is, or wants to be thought of as, a man.

Unless it’s a parody name. Which this OP’s username doesn’t appear to be.

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Well I didn’t know. And as I’ve said I wanted to check. I’m also autistic. Which I has also said. So I felt it was important to be correct in the way I addressed the answer. I was getting Man vibes but I wanted to ask before I assumed.

Butchyrestingface · 17/10/2025 12:19

Starwarsepisode3 · 17/10/2025 12:15

Well I didn’t know. And as I’ve said I wanted to check. I’m also autistic. Which I has also said. So I felt it was important to be correct in the way I addressed the answer. I was getting Man vibes but I wanted to ask before I assumed.

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That’s fine. But some posters have accused the OP of concealing his identity/deception and I don’t really think he did that, based on, among other things, the username.

Posters are free to pick whatever usernames they like, within reason, but certain assumptions are likely to be drawn if you select an obviously gendered username. 🙂

sunshine244 · 17/10/2025 12:34

The stats on dv depend exactly how the research was done. If you look at convictions, MARACs, hospital admissions or any other hard data men are far more likely to be abusive.

If you use self reported data it's more even. That's partly because therr is an established pattern of men who are reported to the police or family courts for abusive behaviour suddenly accusing their partner of the same. DARVO.

My ex has accused me of being abusive. But if you look at behaviour and police reports it would be clear who was the abusive one. Don't want to give all the info, but concrete things like him repeatedly coming to my house and having to be removed by police, sending hundreds of abusive emails, stalking behaviour captured on camera etc. But he still insists I'm the abusive one of course.

Starwarsepisode3 · 17/10/2025 12:34

sunshine244 · 17/10/2025 12:34

The stats on dv depend exactly how the research was done. If you look at convictions, MARACs, hospital admissions or any other hard data men are far more likely to be abusive.

If you use self reported data it's more even. That's partly because therr is an established pattern of men who are reported to the police or family courts for abusive behaviour suddenly accusing their partner of the same. DARVO.

My ex has accused me of being abusive. But if you look at behaviour and police reports it would be clear who was the abusive one. Don't want to give all the info, but concrete things like him repeatedly coming to my house and having to be removed by police, sending hundreds of abusive emails, stalking behaviour captured on camera etc. But he still insists I'm the abusive one of course.

Same.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 14:41

deadpan · 17/10/2025 06:18

Try and keep a diary. Anything made contemporaneously should be taken into account and makes you look as though you've accurately monitored the situation. I'd seek advice immediately, moving your kids to a different GP is not a mild step, it's extremely manipulative. It looks as though your ex might try to say they were worried for the children's health etc. You could call social services.

Thanks for your advice. I'm trying not to escalate things and realise now that the email will most probably fan the flames, so keeping a diary of actions and being watchful seems like the best course of action.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 14:43

jeaux90 · 17/10/2025 06:27

Honestly I would not write anything to them. Just take notes of everything. When it’s your time the ex has no say over how you do anything unless it puts a child at risk. Grey rock now and only communicate on logistics to do with the DC. And when you do that, do it in a very boring factual way. Any emotion is feeding him.

This is a good time to teach your DC about their boundaries and what 50/50
means. They have a right to say no to any demands he makes of them during your custody time.

Good advice, I think I'm going to just document / keep a diary at this stage as the email escalation seems needless and I'm not sure what purpose it serves other than to make me feel better.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 14:46

Daisychain700 · 17/10/2025 06:28

Personally, I’d see this as a way to wind you up. He’s being aggressive and trying to alarm you. The best reaction I think would be silence. Resssure the kids they can freely share any info about life at home, they won’t be in any trouble. Remind yourself you are doing fine as a parent. No court will take action against a parent for late nights, it’s also perfectly normal to leave 12 year olds at home for short periods. Enjoy the time you have with your children, don’t let him get in your head. I believe as the children are older if he takes it to court their views will be taken into account. Even if not, you are doing fine as a parent and he has no right to take any custody away from you.

Thanks, good advice - this isn't the first example of trying to whip things up. I'm not interested in tit-for-tat communications, so I'm more than happy to Grey Rock.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 14:47

HappyToSmile · 17/10/2025 06:29

My ex was absolutely foul. However, i found the best way was to Not react or message or communicate at all really. It goes against what you want to do, but for me, was the best defence. If you haven't already, look up Grey rock too.
If you have a solicitor by now, then next time they communicate with his solicitor, get them to put something in about keeping the children out of your affairs etc.
And good luck. It will be rough but also worth it

Thanks, I've checked out Grey Rock and I think it's the best course of action given the circumstances and personalities at play.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 14:49

WearyCat · 17/10/2025 06:31

Surely the parent who most often takes the kids to the gp should decide where they are registered? But spying isn’t ok and it’s not right to put that on a child.

Having said that if I thought mine wasn’t being properly looked after at her dad’s I would want to know that.

I agree on your GP point and that is 50/50 in the main alongside dentists etc. I was more alarmed at the unilateral nature of the act.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 14:51

Thepeopleversuswork · 17/10/2025 06:43

Sympathies. My ex reported me to social services because I left DD with babysitters. He argued that it was child neglect for me to leave her with “strangers” (actually a trusted friend who she had known for years).

I had a call from a social worker during which they asked me questions and it rapidly became clear they thought it was a huge waste of their time. But a frightening experience to go through.

That just sounds extremely vindictive, especially as you were using a babysitter...

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 14:55

Farticus101 · 17/10/2025 06:50

Go ahead with the mediation and be as specific as you can so there is no room for doubt. Only communicate to your ex in writing. Grey rock as others have said - stay polite for your kids sake but only discuss practical matters.

I would say with your exs behaviour, this could escalate and end up in court. Your ex should never threaten to remove the kids from you. That is not acceptable and damaging for the children if she has no legitimate concerns. Make that very clear.
Keep records of such behaviour, evidence everything if you can in case this does end up in court.

Thanks, mediation is definitely the next step and I'm documenting everything. All actions seem like such a battle at the moment and are needlessly adversarial...even down to school uniforms as my 8 y/o was sent back to me yesterday with only a school shirt and no shorts or jumper despite having them all at the other house. I do think this has a high probability of going to court which is disappointing but not surprising.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 14:56

Linzloopy · 17/10/2025 06:52

"Your behaviour must stop" is too imprecise. Either be more specific (e.g. "important decisions made unilaterally affecting the children's lives must stop " or "attempts to involve the children in our disputes must stop" or leave it out.

Edited

I could use both of your suggested lines to be honest, as they are both relevant...I just don't know if I want to hit the nuke button with the email.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 14:57

MrsDoubtfire1 · 17/10/2025 06:54

Keep a diary of everything that is said and done, times, dates, print off emails etc. You need to build up a portfolio of what your ex is up to. Also, what you wrote at the bottom of your original post sounds excellent. You need to stand up to your full height from day one or else your ex will walk all over the situation.

Thanks, I'm seeing that documenting and diarising is critical in this situation...

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 14:59

Persephonegoddess · 17/10/2025 07:00

diarise everything and check that your children are happy with being left alone? It might be they have said they don’t like it?

Good point; I checked with the kids this morning and they said they were fine with it. One of the 12 y/o did say that she "missed" me when I was out but wasn't worried and knew what to do if she needed me.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 15:04

FlipFlapFlamingo · 17/10/2025 07:04

@MrJonson

First, you didn’t do anything wrong - haircut. I think the law doesn’t set an age and - it’s whether child is responsible and not in danger. You used your judgement. My teenager has a mobile phone, walks to school and goes out alone and is of babysitting age. She sometimes looks after her younger brother for short periods.

IMO, your best option is not to fight with your ex. You grey rock. If you send the email it will ‘get her back up’ and cause retaliation. Any fighting now is through the law. She’s going to stick to her view - and will use any negativity as ammunition/further fuel.

No, she shouldn’t be weaponising your children. But in order for it to stop you either do a short response of ‘thank you - noted’ - and express your views via the law. Not to her.

Thanks for this. I've been Grey Rocking and you're not the first person to say exactly this to me with regards to using the law. My words haven't stopped the unilateral actions so far, so I need to lean-in to the legal process more. We have sent a couple of solicitor's letters to each other but my ex has since asked that we stop sending more solicitor's letters while at the same time sacking their current solicitor and upgrading to the head of the family practice at the same firm; so the messages are totally mixed.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 15:10

Velvian · 17/10/2025 07:05

I think maybe you are jumping to the worst interpretation of the situation @MrJonson . I also think your message is not going to go any way to improving the coparenting relationship as it is a bit confrontational, accusatory and superior.

Coparenting will fail if you always assume the other parent has the worst intentions in any situation.

Bedtime is when the DC's worst fears come out, so it is quite likely that your 12yo has told you their deepest worry, rather than giving an accurate representation of the situation.

My own 12yo recently freaked out after I left them alone for a bit. The scary incident later turned out have been a parcel delivery. That doesn't mean I won't leave him alone again, but just that we will plan it a bit better with some plans if x or y happen.

If your ex has always been the primary parent, it is a huge adjustment to let go 50% of the time. I would guess that she is genuinely worried about the DC when she is not there with them.

She does have to let go, trust you and not interfere. If you are bringing it up, try to envisage the person you used to know and love.

Most of all, try to remember (in theory) your coparent is more sensible and rational than the DC. Talk to the coparent before jumping to conclusions. Don't put the DC in the difficult position of assuming that they are more intelligent and well intentioned than their mother, as that will be a heavy burden for them and most damaging of all.

Thanks, I think I'm probably jumping to the worst interpretation too.

I want co-parenting to work but currently feel like a parallel parent (or that my ex is a counter-parent) as things have been so combative.

The separation is a huge adjustment (for both of us) as I feel like we've lost 50% of access to each other (me + kids) and it's heartbreaking.

Your point on 'co-parenting will fail if you always assume the other parent has the worst intentions in any situation' is resonating with me. I'm willing to think the best and to envisage the person I used to know and love, but every ounce of trust has gone and all I see are the extreme actions that have got us to where we are now. Maybe I need a reset...

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 15:13

RandomMess · 17/10/2025 07:12

I start using a parent app such as family wizard to communicate with your ex so it is all time stamped and court admissible.

I think you would need to be more specific regarding that the DC have to disclosed to use that they are being asked to report xyz in real time and they are very distressed at being put in the middle and that is inappropriate.

Thanks, I use Family Wall and it's really helped to co-ordinate things and make sure that everyone in the family is on the same page. Good point on the kids' level of disclosure...I really don't want to put them in the middle of this, or to make them any more central than they have already become.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 15:16

FlipFlapFlamingo · 17/10/2025 07:16

@MrJonson

I think your children are going to need you to be the bigger person.

You speak to them only positively about their Mum, don’t give fuel to potential arguments, perhaps even ‘acknowledging’ Mum’s concerns and feelings might help - even though you don’t agree.

I think it’s an awful situation and is best dealt with empathy and kindness. The fact that you are posting here means that you are self evaluating and trying to think of the best thing to do. You have that key skill that your children need.

Thanks for your second message. I think I'm going to need to be the bigger person too and I'm willing to do it. The email is only going to make me feel better for an instant before it probably causes a mini nuclear explosion at its destination, and that helps no one in the long run...least of all the kids.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 15:16

Thatsalineallright · 17/10/2025 07:20

Excellent advice.

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Yep, I agree

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 15:22

Elleherd · 17/10/2025 07:31

Sorry I got your gender wrong in an earlier comment.

When actually dealing with direct fallout with the children I'd remind them that both parents inherently love them, and when appropriate, that sometimes adults struggle to remember best approaches to problems, none of us are perfect. It is possible to do this without saying the other parent is wrong or doing something bad.
Remind them, they are their own person/s and don't need to get dragged into such things, just as they are taught not to get dragged into or take sides in friendship disputes at school.

Keep a diary but hope not to have to use it, and use the mediation services to their fullest.

I would recognize there may be differences between apparently malicious actions such as utility canceling, which sounds vengeful, but maybe lack of patience when discovering they couldn't simply remove their name from the account at a stroke (still shitty behavior) when it suited, and possibly genuine fears over different parenting approaches, and hold your nose and try to give some grace over the later for the sake of trying to move forward in co parenting with a currently adversarial ex.

I say currently, because your aim, is for that not to be the future relationship, for the sake of your children if nothing else, regardless of who started or is doing it.

She may be a grade A piece of work, in which case ignore; but IME you can long term kill the unpleasantness and repercussions of shitty situations by being decent and the bigger person in the face of hostility, more often than you win by unsheathing your sword and going into full battle. Hollow victories rarely lead to peace.

In time the Dc's grow up and recognize that putting them first often meant tolerating more than any would instinctively want to.

This is all really sound stuff, thank you.

I like your point about reminding them not to get dragged into things and to make the connection with taking sides in school. The kids know that both of their parents love them dearly and I think it hurts them to see us both at loggerheads (or not at least appearing together as their loving parents).

I do hope that the adversarial nature stops and I'm keen to use 'currently' too. I don't want this to go on forever...as we all have to live with each other through many many rites of passage and milestones.

Thanks for your comments.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 15:30

DancingNotDrowning · 17/10/2025 07:35

A couple of things:

if you’re worried about the fact that your separation is becoming acrimonious your proposed email is not going to help calm the waters.

have you ever left your DC at home in the evening? Could they have been left anxious as a result? You can choose to believe your ex is controlling you or you can choose to believe they are wanting to ensure that the DC are being well looked after and content. it will likely serve you - and more importantly the DC - well to lean into the latter interpretation.

Really good point. I think I'm defaulting to choosing to believe every action from my ex is fuelled by control and acrimony. It might not be that way (even though past actions have certainly seemed this way) and I'm willing to sit with it for a bit and think about whether my reactions are the cause of the escalation. Thanks for raising it.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 15:37

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 17/10/2025 07:42

As a heads up, OP, many Mumsnet users find it irritating when male posters try to conceal their sex and the sex of their partner/ex when asking for advice on here. And using gender neutral pronouns is a dead giveaway anyway. Just be open about the fact that you are a man, asking for advice about a situation with your soon to be ex wife.

Do you have a solicitor acting for you in the divorce? If so I would ask them for advice about what your rights are if you leave your 12 year olds in the house and she comes to take them away during your time. Whilst I agree that morally you are right, it's fine to leave two 12 year olds for a short period of time, and she shouldn't be attempting to control you like this, I'm not sure what would happen in reality if she came to take them away and you reported her and she said she came to pick them up because you left them unattended and they called her. A police officer or judge might take the view that they wouldn't have called her if they felt comfortable being left alone.

A good divorce solicitor will have seen it all before and will know the best way to react in this sort of situation.

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Thanks for the heads-up...it was a late-night first-time-poster mis-step and I'm clear now on how to do things in the future.

I do have a solicitor and spoke to them about this today. They were of the opinion that you can safely leave 12 y/o at home for short periods without issue. The issue becomes when my ex delivers on the ultimatum and comes to the house and takes them away. My ex can do this, even with a court order in place, and it's all about the reaction and countermove which could result in my ex unilaterally changing our parenting agreement, which wouldn't be the first time...I wouldn't be surprised by any level of reaction at this point.

I'm getting advice from my solicitor (who is very good and sensible) and will be going through mediation to hopefully resolve the situation.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 15:38

Elektra1 · 17/10/2025 07:55

Telling someone annoying to stop doing something annoying in this scenario is not ever going to work. In fact it will lead to an argument and she/he will continue doing what they’re doing with the satisfaction of knowing it’s getting to you. So don’t say anything to them. Raise it at the appropriate time with lawyer or CAFCASS if CAFCASS are involved. Stay calm, factual and keep your language neutral. State facts, not opinions.

This is great advice I'm very willing to take on board, thank you.

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DancingNotDrowning · 17/10/2025 16:09

OP good to see that you’re taking on some of the advice to approach with an assumption of good intentions.

i do think you need to consider the leaving at home in a bit more depth.

I do have a solicitor and spoke to them about this today. They were of the opinion that you can safely leave 12 y/o at home for short periods without issue

it really really doesn’t matter what your solicitor or any random MNer thinks. I’d be listening hard to your 12 yr old who said they “missed you”. That is almost certainly indicative of some concern they have that they may well have shared with mum.

Your DC have been through a recent separation that is turning acrimonious. They are likely discombobulated and don’t want to cause upset to you by saying they didn’t like something that you were a responsible for.

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MrJonson · 17/10/2025 16:18

DancingNotDrowning · 17/10/2025 16:09

OP good to see that you’re taking on some of the advice to approach with an assumption of good intentions.

i do think you need to consider the leaving at home in a bit more depth.

I do have a solicitor and spoke to them about this today. They were of the opinion that you can safely leave 12 y/o at home for short periods without issue

it really really doesn’t matter what your solicitor or any random MNer thinks. I’d be listening hard to your 12 yr old who said they “missed you”. That is almost certainly indicative of some concern they have that they may well have shared with mum.

Your DC have been through a recent separation that is turning acrimonious. They are likely discombobulated and don’t want to cause upset to you by saying they didn’t like something that you were a responsible for.

That’s a very good point I hadn’t considered. I haven’t been asking my kids to divulge their conversations with my ex (nor do I want to set that precedent) so I’m not sure what’s been said. But you’re right, the “missed” me bit could well be indicative of something deeper to consider. Thanks.

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