Children asked to spy on parent

[MrJonson]

Hi All,

Long time reader, first time poster here. 👋

I’ve been separated for just over a year. Not divorced yet but my ex has recently moved out of the former matrimonial home (FMH).

I have three kids (12/12/8) and found out recently that my ex asked the 12 y/o to report to them in real time if they were ever left alone in the house or if they have late nights (time undefined) at my house.

My seperation is fast becoming arbitrary and high conflict as I continue to set boundaries with the ex: Ex took kids to their longtime counsellor without telling me, moved them from their old GP to a new one, moved out of the FMH and cancelled all of the utilities, even those in joint names.

Am I being unreasonable calling this behaviour out by saying the below via email?

Where do people think I stand in the eyes of Family Court / CAFCASS if I call this out and set another boundary?

I understand you have asked the children to inform you about aspects of their time with me.

Children should never be placed in the middle of parental dynamics or made to feel responsible for monitoring or reporting on their parents.

This is not in their best interests and must stop immediately.

I will continue to keep you informed about anything important regarding their health, safety, or wellbeing, and I expect the same in return.

The children are not intermediaries in matters between us; your behaviour must stop and this boundary must be fully respected.

All views gratefully received, thanks!

That isn't what the poster wrote at all.

His user name is Mr Johnson🤷‍♀️

This is nonsense.

I explained my reasoning and I can tell an abusive controlling man a mile away and the op’s snotty email is giving me those vibes.

ETA. And the tone of his posts and the way he describes what his ex has done.

How were you " deceived"?

His user name starts with " Mr."

I had a Mr name before.

im female.

I don’t assume based on user name.

So were you trying to deceive other posters with that username?

I’m not interested in engaging with someone who denies the reality of male violence compared to women’s.

Rates and severity of violence—especially physical and sexual—are overwhelmingly higher among men. This is well evidenced and documented and nothing to do with your disgusting patronising and misogynistic claims about “weak fickle women’s” violence not counting.

Why would children need to be left alone or have late nights? Spying is not good but why did those things come up

That's probably because you normalise the behaviour of abusive women. If you had any sort of radar, you'd be able to spot abusive people. Instead, youve developed a schema where you stereotype people based on very rigid gender roles and misogynistic ideas you've picked up about acceptable behaviour in relationships.

This will then justify to you why you are allowed to employ coercive and controlling tactics in relationships to "protect" yourself from these men. You will also enable and facilitate abuse in other relationships by encouraging other women to adopt these strategies.

The ‘deception’ such that it was was in the gender-neutral language in the OP- although personally I find that a dead giveaway.

as others have said if you hadn’t realised he was a man from the lack of sex specific pronouns the pompous email made it very obvious the OP was male

It kind of is, she just dressed it up.

Honestly, having been through this sort of nonsense the best thing you can do is not react. No email. Nothing. And set boundaries with your kids in regards to reporting back and in regards to what is ok and what isn't. These things aren't happening anyway so there is nothing to report back anyway. Your reaction just further puts them in the middle and the only people it is going to impact is them. They need at least one parent who isn't reacting and continuing as normal.

Nobody is denying the reality of male violence. I am saying that the existence of male violence doesn't justify mutual abuse of any kind by women, especially as a preventative measure.

It really should not matter to you what the sex of posters are. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. Abuse is abuse. Even when the abuser is female and the abuse "only" emotional, it is still abuse.

Please don't downplay or dismiss abuse in some weird gender war you have against men. You see it means that children are often disbelieved when they report abuse against their mothers.

When I ended the relationship with my abusive ex he did move out of the marital home. But he refused to even discuss money, and just stopped paying into our joint account which all the bills came out of (some of which were entirely unconnected to me). I wasn't able to just take my name off bills, so the only option was to cancel a lot of bills entirely. So it sounds like she might have had no option.

With regards to leaving children in the house... age 12 is a tricky one. A child could be totally confident, absolutely terrified or anything in-between. It is perfectly possible the chikd has discussed being worried about being left in the house alone.

Because the children are in her care and if she thinks it is ok for them to stay up late once in a while or be home alone then she can.
If you read the thread the child is 12 so to be left home alone is perfectly acceptable

No one is talking about justifying mutual abuse.

You posted “not true” in relation to my statement that “men are many many times more likely to engage in coercive control or violence. They are quicker to escalate and more likely too weaponise children.”

so it absolutely is relevant to know the sexes involved in these disputes.

take a deep breath and ask yourself why you chose to write such a deeply unpleasant post to a woman who had just disclosed her abuse at the hand of an ex partner.

what the fuck is wrong with you?!

You actually said

"Men are many many times more likely to engage in coercive control or violence"

Which isn't true of coercive control and may not even be strictly true of violence. Research goes back and forth. What we know for sure is that women are more likely to be seriously injured by violent intimate abuse. As for who does most hitting, research has been back and forth on that for years. Mutually abusive relationships are probably the closest thing to the truth.

I'd ask what the fuck is wrong with people who need to know the sex of someone before they can decide if a behaviour is abusive. They seem very damaged.

I’d send the email. The children are not pawns & it’s not fair the have them feel like they have to carry the responsibility of reporting back. To them, you’re mom & dad who they love dearly. The seperation will already be hard on them without feeling like they’re going to be getting either one of you in trouble with the other because of the asks. No wonder your 12yr old is upset by it, they want you 2 to be getting along (even if it’s just face value for the kids sake) talk to the ex, express again that you want to do this amicably (for the kids best interests) and for that reason, without the kids getting involved (directly or even indirectly) of course, if the kids have any of their own thoughts/worries and concerns then they should know they can talk to either of you safely, without consequence. Or they’re just going to harbour their feelings as not to rock the boat. Ultimately, kids just want to protect their parents as much as you want to protect your kids.

Personally I'd go at this from a different angle.

"I understand you have asked the children to tell you if X,Y, or Z happens while they are in my care. DS/DD was very conflicted and upset about this and I'd like to avoid them feeling in the middle.

Perhaps we can discuss this matter during mediation."

Were both 12 year olds happy to be left at home for a bit in the day doing their homework??

Are the late nights affecting your youngest's sleep routine??

Is your ex upset because half of the time the kids being with you, you are both already missing a lot, and maybe instead of them being left alone or with sitters you could each ask the other parents if they'd like that time with them??

Just my thoughts.

I think telling your children "if anything happens anywhere, including at your other parents house that you are uncomfortable with you can always tell me" is fine whereas "Please spy on your other parent and report back" is different. It sounds like it was maybe more like the first one? But only your ex knows that.

Has your ex moved out of the family home and cancelled utilities because they can't afford them perhaps? I don't see what the issue is with that one really.

Not at all.

But. As I said. I was getting controlling man vibes and I just wanted to check the sex of the poster before I answered.

Erm is there a difference between:

"Men are many many times more likely to engage in coercive control or violence"

and

"Men are many many times more likely to engage in coercive control or violence"

The op is complaining that his ex cancelled utilities for a house she doesn’t live in. That she took kids to counselling and that she wants a gp near her (I assume since she moved out). None of these are bad things. And yet the op is going to send a shitty email off the back of them.

the leaving the kids and staying up late is very situation dependent.

The OP is a man