Children asked to spy on parent

[MrJonson]

Hi All,

Long time reader, first time poster here. 👋

I’ve been separated for just over a year. Not divorced yet but my ex has recently moved out of the former matrimonial home (FMH).

I have three kids (12/12/8) and found out recently that my ex asked the 12 y/o to report to them in real time if they were ever left alone in the house or if they have late nights (time undefined) at my house.

My seperation is fast becoming arbitrary and high conflict as I continue to set boundaries with the ex: Ex took kids to their longtime counsellor without telling me, moved them from their old GP to a new one, moved out of the FMH and cancelled all of the utilities, even those in joint names.

Am I being unreasonable calling this behaviour out by saying the below via email?

Where do people think I stand in the eyes of Family Court / CAFCASS if I call this out and set another boundary?

I understand you have asked the children to inform you about aspects of their time with me.

Children should never be placed in the middle of parental dynamics or made to feel responsible for monitoring or reporting on their parents.

This is not in their best interests and must stop immediately.

I will continue to keep you informed about anything important regarding their health, safety, or wellbeing, and I expect the same in return.

The children are not intermediaries in matters between us; your behaviour must stop and this boundary must be fully respected.

All views gratefully received, thanks!

I’m afraid I would do the same. If I’m on joint utilities I’m not leaving it up to someone else to cancel them - I’ve been burned before. I would if course have told the remaining person in the house that I was about to do so and they needed to set up their own utilities.

As for asking thd kids to spy - I’ve had this too. The only thing you can do is carry on being a focused parent and ignore your ex’s nasty bulllshit. Professionals can go either way - you never know which way they’re going to go, either. I wouldn’t bother writing to your ex - they could attempt to use it in some way. Completely ignore their behaviour - focus on your children. Document. Document. Document.

98% if sexual assaults are by men. The statistics are clear.

Where does it say he refused to move out?
nowhere does it say why the ex moved out and took the children?

The point is that we don't know men are many more times likely to engage in coercive control. That's the point. We don't even know that for sure about violence. We do know women are more likely to be seriously injured.

Yes. Coercive control isn't sexual assault though.

That doesn't mean anything.

You don't just change your kid's long term GP in a 50/50 arrangement without input from the other parent. Therapists can and have been sued by abusers to further their abuse.

How long has the 50/50 been in place? Who normally takes the kids to the doc?

Why would a therapist be sued?

Neither does " deceived" then.

That was supposed to say "used".

So I was being abusive and furthering my non existent abuse of my ex when I organised for my kids to see a therapist?

As were the school when they did the same? Due to their feelings around their dad’s behaviour the school were abusing him?

The tone of your proposed email would get my back up, and I'm fairly placid.

I don't think your ex was unreasonable to do whatever they needed to do to get their name off the bills. You could have proactively moved them into your name in readiness for them moving out, if you were paying them in full anyway it would have just been an admin thing.

I think you need to consider why your ex has asked to be told if the children are left alone? I agree, 12 seems a perfectly fine age to be left for a bit during the day. So, possibly your ex is being unfair. However, did the 12 year olds mention it to them in the context of being left and worried and they said something like just let me know, I can come and get you if that happens? I think I'd be tempted to message the ex and say something like "The children say you are concerned about the older ones being left alone for a brief period of time. They are 12 and I think they are responsible enough for me to do this if they are happy. Can you let me know why you think it is a problem?"

No, I said therapists can and have been used by the abuser. Were you the abuser?

Op it is a bit tough- we can say there’s no difference between men and women (if not shy did you purposely not use she in your op? I get it may be to prevent bias but it wasn’t great) but the utilities- I do all of the bill organising and paying (yes not all my money! but the act of all the organising), dh would definitely leave the kids on their own if he was stuck which I absolutely would not agree with (not an issue now with their ages) and he’s definitely had them up late late when I’ve been away and they’ve been in bits the following day- he would have seen it as fun and not get for days they’re going to be wrecked.

Men have different personalities and a large number of women have to be bad cop and I could actually see myself saying ‘let me know itf …’ if dh wouldn’t communicate with me and has shut down all communication (as we as women know men do in a lot of cases). The counselling thing is out of order of her no matter what though. But other than that on seeing you’re a man it could be either way.

He deliberately used gender neutral pronouns to conceal the sex of the person he was talking about. It's irritating.

Well you don’t seem to agree with the stats so who knows what you think. Apparently it’s all my internalised misogyny that means I can smell an abusive man.

I also can smell abusive women in relationships (my best friend was in one) and I told her so. FWIW. But that won’t fit your narrative.

The stuff the op is complaining about is mostly reasonable and the two things that might not be are very situationally dependent.

And the email he wants to send is screamingly abusive and massively controlling. In my opinion.

@MrJonson have you re registered the kids back to their original gp yet ?
Do you receive their child benefit?

Having a go at their dad isn't going to make your kids feel better. I would do the opposite of what you have planned and instead sit the kids down and tell them you do not need them to protect you by lying about anything that happens in your home and if their father asks them reasonable questions they can answer them if they want to. You can't control him - but expecting them to stand up to him is putting them in the middle here. If you also want to call our your Ex then I'd go for something much more reasonable and less aggressive "Hi Ex, I understand that you've asked the kids to keep you informed of certain aspects of their home life and its made them feel like they are being asked to report on me and like they are in the middle of our disagreements which doesn't seem healthy for them. I've told them they don't need to keep anything that happens in their home a secret from you, their father, and are welcome to answer questions from you - but I'd also suggest they will feel more comfortable if you direct any questions or concerns to me as they were clearly upset about being put in the middle like this. I am happy to be open in our communications both ways for the good of the kids." This would also read much better in eventual discussions on custody etc.

EDIT: just saw that the OP is the dad and the ex is the mum - doesn't change my opinion. Prioritise the kids needs not your own anger.

The op is the father. The ex is the mother.

Just saw that the OP is the dad and the ex is the mother. It doesn't change my suggestion - OP wasn't prioritising his children's needs, he was prioritising his own anger.

It’s should be irrelevant . However this is MN we are all on .

Me too

Your ex is entitled to change the bills into her name if you've split up.

It's sex, not gender BTW.

Actually it fits my narrative perfectly and that's why it is confusing that you'd not say that you can detect an abuser easily, but rather you said you can weed out abusive men, specifically.

Yes, he did, although it was obvious from the way he wrote the OP (and his user name) that he was a man.