Children asked to spy on parent

[MrJonson]

Hi All,

Long time reader, first time poster here. 👋

I’ve been separated for just over a year. Not divorced yet but my ex has recently moved out of the former matrimonial home (FMH).

I have three kids (12/12/8) and found out recently that my ex asked the 12 y/o to report to them in real time if they were ever left alone in the house or if they have late nights (time undefined) at my house.

My seperation is fast becoming arbitrary and high conflict as I continue to set boundaries with the ex: Ex took kids to their longtime counsellor without telling me, moved them from their old GP to a new one, moved out of the FMH and cancelled all of the utilities, even those in joint names.

Am I being unreasonable calling this behaviour out by saying the below via email?

Where do people think I stand in the eyes of Family Court / CAFCASS if I call this out and set another boundary?

I understand you have asked the children to inform you about aspects of their time with me.

Children should never be placed in the middle of parental dynamics or made to feel responsible for monitoring or reporting on their parents.

This is not in their best interests and must stop immediately.

I will continue to keep you informed about anything important regarding their health, safety, or wellbeing, and I expect the same in return.

The children are not intermediaries in matters between us; your behaviour must stop and this boundary must be fully respected.

All views gratefully received, thanks!

Maybe because this is a site predominantly used by women? The clue’s in the name.

What's that got to do with anything?

Yes, the clue really is in the OP’s name…

I almost never read usernames unless I get in an argument with someone and want to double check I'm quoting the right person!

Sorry I got your gender wrong in an earlier comment.

When actually dealing with direct fallout with the children I'd remind them that both parents inherently love them, and when appropriate, that sometimes adults struggle to remember best approaches to problems, none of us are perfect. It is possible to do this without saying the other parent is wrong or doing something bad.
Remind them, they are their own person/s and don't need to get dragged into such things, just as they are taught not to get dragged into or take sides in friendship disputes at school.

Keep a diary but hope not to have to use it, and use the mediation services to their fullest.

I would recognize there may be differences between apparently malicious actions such as utility canceling, which sounds vengeful, but maybe lack of patience when discovering they couldn't simply remove their name from the account at a stroke (still shitty behavior) when it suited, and possibly genuine fears over different parenting approaches, and hold your nose and try to give some grace over the later for the sake of trying to move forward in co parenting with a currently adversarial ex.

I say currently, because your aim, is for that not to be the future relationship, for the sake of your children if nothing else, regardless of who started or is doing it.

She may be a grade A piece of work, in which case ignore; but IME you can long term kill the unpleasantness and repercussions of shitty situations by being decent and the bigger person in the face of hostility, more often than you win by unsheathing your sword and going into full battle. Hollow victories rarely lead to peace.

In time the Dc's grow up and recognize that putting them first often meant tolerating more than any would instinctively want to.

A couple of things:

if you’re worried about the fact that your separation is becoming acrimonious your proposed email is not going to help calm the waters.

have you ever left your DC at home in the evening? Could they have been left anxious as a result? You can choose to believe your ex is controlling you or you can choose to believe they are wanting to ensure that the DC are being well looked after and content. it will likely serve you - and more importantly the DC - well to lean into the latter interpretation.

Sounds like he wants ammunition for getting full custody ?

That’s easily done, they ask you on the phone if you have permission of both parties and you say yes… I do it all the time switching providers for various things.

As a heads up, OP, many Mumsnet users find it irritating when male posters try to conceal their sex and the sex of their partner/ex when asking for advice on here. And using gender neutral pronouns is a dead giveaway anyway. Just be open about the fact that you are a man, asking for advice about a situation with your soon to be ex wife.

Do you have a solicitor acting for you in the divorce? If so I would ask them for advice about what your rights are if you leave your 12 year olds in the house and she comes to take them away during your time. Whilst I agree that morally you are right, it's fine to leave two 12 year olds for a short period of time, and she shouldn't be attempting to control you like this, I'm not sure what would happen in reality if she came to take them away and you reported her and she said she came to pick them up because you left them unattended and they called her. A police officer or judge might take the view that they wouldn't have called her if they felt comfortable being left alone.

A good divorce solicitor will have seen it all before and will know the best way to react in this sort of situation.

His user name is MRJonson

Telling someone annoying to stop doing something annoying in this scenario is not ever going to work. In fact it will lead to an argument and she/he will continue doing what they’re doing with the satisfaction of knowing it’s getting to you. So don’t say anything to them. Raise it at the appropriate time with lawyer or CAFCASS if CAFCASS are involved. Stay calm, factual and keep your language neutral. State facts, not opinions.

It’s not though.
I once used a fictional male name from a well known author because I liked it, I am female.
I nc because any comment, however innocuous, would get an aggressive response by the men haters on this site.
The worst was when I said something was ironic, I had forgotten to insert the relevant comment, my fault, but the vicious ridicule I received was off the scale.
There are some horrible people who use MN.

Usernames aren’t a guarantee, but OP has been accused of “hiding his gender” while posting under a name which in fact correctly indicated that he is a man…

She said their father has asked them to tell him if they are left alone or up late, which could indicate one of the children might have mentioned something to him? Anyway OP confirmed that she went out left the 12 year olds alone. So it didn’t just come from nowhere.

No I wouldn’t send that email.

If my dc shared that I absolutely would not be putting them in a situation where the other adult might get angry at them for telling me.

That is putting the dc in the middle. Regardless of who started it.

You are both adults, and you need to deescalate and figure out how to coparent in the children’s best interests. You probably need mediation.

I’m going to hazard a guess that one or both of the 12 year olds were not fully comfortable being left by themselves, and confided that in dm. But instead of either of you concentrating on the dc, and their needs, you both focused on each others shortcomings.

Seriously - there are three innocent dc in the middle of this.

As a heads up, OP, many Mumsnet users find it irritating when male posters try to conceal their sex and the sex of their partner/ex when asking for advice on here. And using gender neutral pronouns is a dead giveaway anyway. Just be open about the fact that you are a man, asking for advice about a situation with your soon to be ex wife.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom they get fairer advice though.
I guarantee many of the comments will change bias now it’s been pointed out op is a man.

Are you joking? You wouldn’t leave a 12 year old alone…what do they do after school, wonder the streets until they can be supervised in the house? As for the 18 year old…

Alright he said. 😂 but it’s interesting that all the replies are people assuming the ex was a man me included.

Back to topic OP, yes it is unreasonable for your ex to quiz your kids about what happens at your house, and it probably is aimed at finding out whether you are dating, or to claim you’re an unfit parent and go for a different living arrangement.

You need to decide whether what you say to the kids is: you can tell your mum anything about what happens here, you don’t need to hide anything. Or: this house is for me and you (all), and you shouldn’t tell your mum things.

Having been the kid with both parents questioning what happens at the other house, yet both wanting their own privacy, I’d counsel the first option.

I’m not convinced court or CAFCASS will care massively about this topic.

The big thing is to try your absolute hardest to stop the kids from feeling stuck in the middle. That’s why I would suggest saying yes, tell your mum whatever you want to. And tell them that you won’t ask any questions about their mum (have to model the behaviour you want), but that they can tell you anything they want to. You’re going to be so tempted to say “so are you ever on your own at your mums” but you have to resist that temptation if your priority is the kids.

If your ex has moved out why would they want their name to remain on the utility bills?

If it meant that something was cut off and they didnt discuss it with you, although it doesnt sound like anything was thats a different matter.

Oh & dont forget you can now get 25% off your Council Tax if you are the sole adult in the property

8, not 18.

Don't think the OP said they were actually doing that? 🙄

Whoops! That’ll teach me 🙈

Well......we all know why you're here don't we? And I can guarantee it won't be to contribute anything actually helpful or relevant.

Exactly! And one of these "kids" is 18 years old!
Sorry misread the age.

Still though...
Bizarre response 😳