Children asked to spy on parent

[MrJonson]

Hi All,

Long time reader, first time poster here. 👋

I’ve been separated for just over a year. Not divorced yet but my ex has recently moved out of the former matrimonial home (FMH).

I have three kids (12/12/8) and found out recently that my ex asked the 12 y/o to report to them in real time if they were ever left alone in the house or if they have late nights (time undefined) at my house.

My seperation is fast becoming arbitrary and high conflict as I continue to set boundaries with the ex: Ex took kids to their longtime counsellor without telling me, moved them from their old GP to a new one, moved out of the FMH and cancelled all of the utilities, even those in joint names.

Am I being unreasonable calling this behaviour out by saying the below via email?

Where do people think I stand in the eyes of Family Court / CAFCASS if I call this out and set another boundary?

I understand you have asked the children to inform you about aspects of their time with me.

Children should never be placed in the middle of parental dynamics or made to feel responsible for monitoring or reporting on their parents.

This is not in their best interests and must stop immediately.

I will continue to keep you informed about anything important regarding their health, safety, or wellbeing, and I expect the same in return.

The children are not intermediaries in matters between us; your behaviour must stop and this boundary must be fully respected.

All views gratefully received, thanks!

Honestly I would not write anything to them. Just take notes of everything. When it’s your time the ex has no say over how you do anything unless it puts a child at risk. Grey rock now and only communicate on logistics to do with the DC. And when you do that, do it in a very boring factual way. Any emotion is feeding him.

This is a good time to teach your DC about their boundaries and what 50/50
means. They have a right to say no to any demands he makes of them during your custody time.

Personally, I’d see this as a way to wind you up. He’s being aggressive and trying to alarm you. The best reaction I think would be silence. Resssure the kids they can freely share any info about life at home, they won’t be in any trouble. Remind yourself you are doing fine as a parent. No court will take action against a parent for late nights, it’s also perfectly normal to leave 12 year olds at home for short periods. Enjoy the time you have with your children, don’t let him get in your head. I believe as the children are older if he takes it to court their views will be taken into account. Even if not, you are doing fine as a parent and he has no right to take any custody away from you.

Personally, I’d see this as a way to wind you up. He’s being aggressive and trying to alarm you. The best reaction I think would be silence. Resssure the kids they can freely share any info about life at home, they won’t be in any trouble. Remind yourself you are doing fine as a parent. No court will take action against a parent for late nights, it’s also perfectly normal to leave 12 year olds at home for short periods. Enjoy the time you have with your children, don’t let him get in your head. I believe as the children are older if he takes it to court their views will be taken into account. Even if not, you are doing fine as a parent and he has no right to take any custody away from you.

I’m a man and my ex is a woman. Gender doesn’t change the facts or the behaviour.

My ex was absolutely foul. However, i found the best way was to Not react or message or communicate at all really. It goes against what you want to do, but for me, was the best defence. If you haven't already, look up Grey rock too.
If you have a solicitor by now, then next time they communicate with his solicitor, get them to put something in about keeping the children out of your affairs etc.
And good luck. It will be rough but also worth it

Surely the parent who most often takes the kids to the gp should decide where they are registered? But spying isn’t ok and it’s not right to put that on a child.

Having said that if I thought mine wasn’t being properly looked after at her dad’s I would want to know that.

It’s irrelevant surely ?

I knew you were the man from your OP and found it interesting that so many people jumped to calling the ex "him".

Send the email. The more of a paper trail, the better.

My ex did this tried to get ds1 to look through my phone to tell him everything that went on there the best one was when we were in conference and my ex droned on about a mysterious "black man" (he literally used air quotes) who had come to my house on several occasions and he was upset and terrified for his children's safety and wanted him DBS checked etc etc I said that would be the gas man he is already DBS checked by the company im assuming that im allowed to have repairs done to my home? He was unhappy being embarrassed like that but I told him he deserved it and to leave DS out of things in future

Sympathies. My ex reported me to social services because I left DD with babysitters. He argued that it was child neglect for me to leave her with “strangers” (actually a trusted friend who she had known for years).

I had a call from a social worker during which they asked me questions and it rapidly became clear they thought it was a huge waste of their time. But a frightening experience to go through.

Go ahead with the mediation and be as specific as you can so there is no room for doubt. Only communicate to your ex in writing. Grey rock as others have said - stay polite for your kids sake but only discuss practical matters.

I would say with your exs behaviour, this could escalate and end up in court. Your ex should never threaten to remove the kids from you. That is not acceptable and damaging for the children if she has no legitimate concerns. Make that very clear.
Keep records of such behaviour, evidence everything if you can in case this does end up in court.

"Your behaviour must stop" is too imprecise. Either be more specific (e.g. "important decisions made unilaterally affecting the children's lives must stop " or "attempts to involve the children in our disputes must stop" or leave it out.

Keep a diary of everything that is said and done, times, dates, print off emails etc. You need to build up a portfolio of what your ex is up to. Also, what you wrote at the bottom of your original post sounds excellent. You need to stand up to your full height from day one or else your ex will walk all over the situation.

Is it actually 50/50? Who is claiming the CB?

diarise everything and check that your children are happy with being left alone? It might be they have said they don’t like it?

@MrJonson

First, you didn’t do anything wrong - haircut. I think the law doesn’t set an age and - it’s whether child is responsible and not in danger. You used your judgement. My teenager has a mobile phone, walks to school and goes out alone and is of babysitting age. She sometimes looks after her younger brother for short periods.

IMO, your best option is not to fight with your ex. You grey rock. If you send the email it will ‘get her back up’ and cause retaliation. Any fighting now is through the law. She’s going to stick to her view - and will use any negativity as ammunition/further fuel.

No, she shouldn’t be weaponising your children. But in order for it to stop you either do a short response of ‘thank you - noted’ - and express your views via the law. Not to her.

@MrsTerryPratchett is someone quite often seen on threads about social inequality, amongst other topics - it would be as foolish to assume that made them either unequal or unemployed, as it would be to assume the Op is guilty of wrongdoing because her ex is trying to weaponize their children.

It's worth remembering that acid systematically corrodes it's own container.

I think maybe you are jumping to the worst interpretation of the situation @MrJonson . I also think your message is not going to go any way to improving the coparenting relationship as it is a bit confrontational, accusatory and superior.

Coparenting will fail if you always assume the other parent has the worst intentions in any situation.

Bedtime is when the DC's worst fears come out, so it is quite likely that your 12yo has told you their deepest worry, rather than giving an accurate representation of the situation.

My own 12yo recently freaked out after I left them alone for a bit. The scary incident later turned out have been a parcel delivery. That doesn't mean I won't leave him alone again, but just that we will plan it a bit better with some plans if x or y happen.

If your ex has always been the primary parent, it is a huge adjustment to let go 50% of the time. I would guess that she is genuinely worried about the DC when she is not there with them.

She does have to let go, trust you and not interfere. If you are bringing it up, try to envisage the person you used to know and love.

Most of all, try to remember (in theory) your coparent is more sensible and rational than the DC. Talk to the coparent before jumping to conclusions. Don't put the DC in the difficult position of assuming that they are more intelligent and well intentioned than their mother, as that will be a heavy burden for them and most damaging of all.

I start using a parent app such as family wizard to communicate with your ex so it is all time stamped and court admissible.

I think you would need to be more specific regarding that the DC have to disclosed to use that they are being asked to report xyz in real time and they are very distressed at being put in the middle and that is inappropriate.

@MrJonson

I think your children are going to need you to be the bigger person.

You speak to them only positively about their Mum, don’t give fuel to potential arguments, perhaps even ‘acknowledging’ Mum’s concerns and feelings might help - even though you don’t agree.

I think it’s an awful situation and is best dealt with empathy and kindness. The fact that you are posting here means that you are self evaluating and trying to think of the best thing to do. You have that key skill that your children need.

The parent app sounds like an excellent idea.

At 12 years old, most parents will leave their child alone for a period of time.

What relevance does @MrsTerryPratchett posting on benefit threads have? I assume that you mean that because she is supportive to posters struggling on benefits she must be unemployed herself? That is an absolutely ridulous assumption to make.

Excellent advice.

Well you mustn’t be a ‘working adult’ if you’re on here making stupid comments at 1.36am.