The venue told me off twice now on front of guests AIBU?

[StressedPartyFail]

There is a venue near my house that we visit regularly. They also host children’s parties in a room upstairs. My child really likes it here and wanted her birthday. No issue. I got a leaflet and said 10 children minimum, I booked and decided to invite 13, to make sure we hit the target room booking number in case a couple couldn’t come.
anyway, went to a different event there and spoke to the owner, (it’s owned by an older woman and her adult daughter, I was speaking to the adult daughter during all interactions so far). She mentioned that due to room size it was best that only
children came and had to be dropped off. The children attending are age 4-5 so I said it wouldn’t be appropriate and that parents would be staying. She said, “I totally understand. I have kids too”. No issue. Ned time I came in the same conversation was repeated.

fast forward to party day, it was on a weekend therefore it was 2 members of staff I had never met. Went up to party room and everyone invited had turned up. It was a slight squeeze but no drama, everyone had a great time. 10
mins in a member of staff working there came up and said loudly
in front of guests, “this is a fire hazard there are too many people in here. We can’t get in to do our job properly”. I asked to speak to her out of the room and away from the guests as it was quite embarrassing! She said she had to ring manager (adult daughter owner). I went back to the party room and a dad awkwardly said he could leave but his daughter would have to come if there were issues. I’m not sure how many others clocked on to this situation. Manager rang and asked to speak to me, she said on the phone that it was more people than recommended but if I was willing to help evacuate during a fire it was fine. All ok. Other weekend member of staff very apologetic but had made things awkward. Dad who offered to leave called her dramatic so he realised her tone. I felt on edge for the rest of the party but everyone seemed to have a great time.

A week later, (this morning) I bobbed in seeing a friend in the window. She had brought her other daughter after the one invited to my party had such a great time. the older woman (other owner) I never met was there, I untraced myself and she told me “OH ARE YOU THE PARTY LADY” and went on to tell me it was horrendous and a fire hazard and too many people were in the room. She said her staff were traumatised with stress and had to be paid extra due to this and the fact they had to stay and clear up after us (where actually I ended up happily hosting the party and completely cleared up. Plus took everything downstairs and boxed things which they would usually have to do). I tried to keep her voice down as the lady behind attended the party and it was awkward. I’ve gone home quite frazzled and stressed. This is somewhere we love
to go. We made it clear on numbers from the start and they were happy
to take our money and book in. What do I do from here? Offer to pay the staff? I’m worried to book again and we really enjoy it here. Thanks in advance x

I think there was just a lot of miscommunication here, to be honest.

If someone booked for 13 people, I would have assumed 13 altogether, not 13 + parents - but admittedly, I don’t work in this industry.

They shouldn’t be accepting vague numbers if it’s such an issue. Telling you off in public is super unprofessional.

@Darragon why are you so agressive and lacking in empathy?

The OP wasn't told the maximum capacity. It is the venue's legal responsibility to clearly state it (along with other H&S regulations) and to refuse any booking that breaches it. Communication from the venue should be clear and in writing at the time of booking. It is not the client's responsibility to do some half-arsed estimate of capacity or fire regulations. In fact that's against the law.

Unnecessary drama by them. Gosh.

No the manager was 100% in the wrong here.

You cannot be polite if you’re doing something illegal like being over capacity.

She simply said it would be a bit crowded - nothing to suggest that OP shouldn’t attend or how many people are the maximum number allowed.

It is not for OP to try and guess by reading between the lines.

If no one said anything on party day or after, then we wouldn’t think twice about that message.
It is only because we know that there was an issue that in hindsight we can go back and try and reevaluate the messages.

The manager should have said it’s a maximum of 15 people or whatever it is.
Not being too polite to say anything, risking children’s lives and making her staff work harder.

And then immediately countered that no, the the children are too young and parents would be coming. The venue then confirmed (in writing) that they would be welcome to.

OP said more than once that it would be 13 kids plus their parents.

The manager said it might be crowded but didn’t mention a maximum amount.

No customer or client should have to read between the lines to figure out what is being said. It is perfectly possible to be clear and polite at the same time. In fact, I’d have thought it was essential to good communication and customer relations.

@tara66 if that is the case they should have communicated their policies much more clearly to the party host in light of THEIR insurance limitations. Don't you think?

The "OK..." and suggestion of an alternative venue seem quite clear to me that she was trying to put you off. However, she should have been firmer with you if you didn't understand her subtlety. As a regular customer, she obviously appreciates your custom and didn't want to say no.

As adults were attending too, they probably should have been included in the number of paid guests, and then she might have clarified the room limitations.

Sounds like the owner didn’t want turn down the business, but afterwards the staff have complained and asked for extra money for the hassle.

The owner should have been clear beforehand on the numbers, it’s not the customer’s responsibility at all. I would have been very put out by the way she spoke to you.

its strange because I don’t understand why the staff would ask for more money. Usually their job is to clear up the room of the creations and label and bring them downstairs (I did all this) help with food and be in and out (I did all this). They just stayed downstairs! Their job was made much easier in my opinion. The woman working the Saturday even said “are you sure you’re ok doing all this” and I said absolutely fine and we’d sort and clear up when finished. Which we did

Manager rang and asked to speak to me, she said on the phone that it was more people than recommended but if I was willing to help evacuate during a fire it was fine

Are any other H&S/ fire people cringing inside out at this?! Wtf. Because of course an untrained person with their children present will absolutely stay in a burning building to facilitate evacuation.

OP it's done, she's had her say. If you love it that much carry on going & the next drama will be along soon enough for the not very resilient staff (traumatised with stress over a crowded room?)

However their safety management sounds abysmal if her comment above is anything to go by, so if it's a kids soft play type thing I'd be put off as it's unlikely they're compliant.

What was the extra hassle though? Only 13 children taking part which was agreed. Presumably the other adults were just standing at the side chatting?

That would be me too 😂 i would PAT test everything

This seems like an inadvisable idea all round, really. A “craft party” for 4-5 year olds was never going to work even without all the adults there creating a fire hazard through overcrowding. It doesn’t say what kind of craft it was (I’ve read all the OPs posts and don’t see it) but I’m imagining something like a pottery painting cafe as the set up of party room upstairs and coffee downstairs is the same as one I used to frequent. I can’t imagine the horror of that with 13 4-5 year olds running around breaking stuff.

Her communication was too wishy washy although it's obvious she didn't want the parents there. She needed to be assertive and outright say that as given what she did say you did nothing wrong in interpreting it the way you did. The actual person messaging you probably didn't tell the other owner and staff exactly what they said to you, and as a result they think she said not to bring parents but you did anyway, hence the attitude. It's all on whichever person answered your message imo.

It reminds me of taking my child and friends to a small craft place for birthday party and being told that I couldn't stay. They were young and the place was busy and I felt a bit unhappy being responsible for other people's kids and then just leaving them, but they kicked me out. Communicating clearly in advance is so important. I needed up watching through the window like a weirdo!

if she has details of the fire regs relating to the room
and needs to enforce them then she needs to communicate that to people booking the space. You can’t run a business dictating a minimum number of attendees at a party and then be shocked that the room gets full, or unilaterally decide that it’s overcrowded.

She literally said they were welcome to stay.

I wouldn't engage any further over it. You told them the numbers, they said best not for parents to stay, you said they would be staying and she said they were welcome to.

If 13 children and 13 parents was over their limits she should have said so and either cancelled your booking or told you that you had to cut numbers so that the total didn't exceed X number.

It isn’t OP’s responsibility to know what the business owners insurance docs allow. It’s on the owner to specify to the customer that the room can only have 10 people MAXIMUM, including adults, and when OP mentioned to them that parents would need to be there because the kids are 4 years old they should’ve said at the time that the number of children attending would need to be reduced to accommodate this. OP has also stated that they were told in advance it was 13 kids plus adults coming, so surely the business owner would’ve known about possibility of insurance compromise or fire risk at that point.

If they are unable or unwilling to accommodate adults staying with their kids, then they need to increase the minimum age to have a party there so that this isn’t an issue.

You should be angry at THEM, OP.

They put you, 13 small children and another 10ish adults, not to mention their staff, at risk because they were too focused on trying to make a profit out of people to be clear on the safe limits on their facility.

The rooms being let are only insured for a given number of people. If they state that they can accommodate say up to 20 people, it means 20 people, not 13 children with at least one parent each.

I interpret this as a small business where the staff may or may not be badly paid and badly managed, but are most definitely moaners. We all know the type of martyred individual who likes to grumble about how their life is so difficult and everyone else so unreasonable.

The woman who crashed in squeaking about fire safety has gone and moaned to her boss, over-exaggerating massively (eg about scale of clean up). Do not give this sort of person another thought.

She has replied just saying that we hadn’t listened to the guidance and that they were able to offer the party to be as good as usual due to numbers but I never raised any issue with this. I’ve replied asking what their maximum capacity actually is as I’m still not aware and I don’t appreciate being told off by them essentially. I walk past several times a day so don’t want to be awkward so I said I saw their point completely and I hope they see mine.

But I wasn’t made aware of a maximum number of people. Her exact words were, “it will be a squeeze but they are welcome”