Autistic child attacking DD part 2

[HollandAndCooper]

Original thread here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5420774-autistic-child-attacking-dd?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Hi Everyone,

me back again looking for advice, perhaps some last minute advice as I have a meeting scheduled with the head teacher this morning.

DD aged 4 has been very unwell and spent a week off school. She is really going through it at the moment. She returned to school yesterday after her time off, and I'd hoped that the boy in question would've got bored and moved on. I did have a meeting booked last week but couldn't go due to DD being poorly.

well.. it turns out he hasn't got bored and moved on. It's a very small school with 20-25 per class, one class per year from reception to year 2.

the event that happened yesterday, by DDs account.
it was play time and DD was playing with a couple other girls in the play ground. Child in question was calling DD names like 'baby' and 'you need nappies' and announced he was going to the toilet.
he came back out and proceeded to have faeces on his finger to which he wiped on her cardigan.

a staff member took her to the quiet room, swapped her cardigan for one in lost property and the cardigan was handed to me in a bag on pick up. With still an evident stain on it.

i have a meeting this morning.

I have a copy of the safe guarding policy, anti bullying policy. I just need some wise words from MN now with what I need to say but I'm going down the route of failing to keep my child safe, and this is a huge safeguarding issue, not to mention a biohazard issue.
please be kind, I'm a single parent doing my best, and she won't be returning until she is safe.

so far the child has:
kicked, punched, pinched, clouted her on the head with a metal water bottle, name called and taunted. And now this.

she will not be going back to the school until this is sorted and there are proper sanctions in place. I am so angry and utterly heartbroken for her. She has been so poorly last week and in and out of hospital and I cannot see her broken like this anymore.

i appreciate the old thread is 1000 posts but there's more information on there if needed.
My AIBU is I guess to want this child excluded and put as far away from DD as possible. But I know it's not that simple. I'm at a total loss and they are failing to safe guard my child. She will not be returning until she can be safe, I'm also looking at other provisions for her now.
thanks in advance.

This. The current 'system' fails everyone, there are no winners. And I say this as the parent of an autistic child currently thriving in mainstream who would be utterly traumatised (as is the op's daughter) at having to deal with this every day.

Thank you all, I've read all replies in great detail and made notes, I'm off now to so will report back later on. Thank you again!!

Good luck @HollandAndCooper

Do you have a class WhatsApp? If they continue to ignore the issue and not do anything then I'd be going public with it- not outing the boy but discussing the issues your little girl is dealing with and asking if anyone else child is being targeted.

Isn't poo smearing a sign of sexual abuse- I'd ask them if they had reported the boys parents but otherwise ignore his issues in your meeting.

It's about the safety of your child not the difficulties of her abuser.

Best of luck. This simply cannot continue, this child’s behaviour is fucking appalling and the effect this will have your daughter, if left unchecked, will be devastating.

I would remove her, and provide details to all the other parents so they can be on their guard. Once she’s gone, he’ll need a new target, and they’ll need to know what to ask about/look out for.

You said it, he needs 1:1. It's inexcusable that the school has not put more support in place to support the boy and to safeguard other children like the OP's DD.

Oh my goodness, your poor DD. The poo smearing is horrific and humiliating for her.

As others have said, the tack you need to take is to focus on your DD. DO NOT make it about the boy as they’ll disengage.

How are you preventing this from happening again?
What are you doing to keep my DD safe?

Etc etc.

Definitely follow up in writing with what was discussed.

Good luck OP, unfortunately I think you’re going to need it

Honestly? As a teacher (not primary and not UK), I would move my child.
You shouldn’t have to, and it’s not right, but this boy has severe challenges that won’t be fixed overnight and in all likelihood will get worse as he gets older and stronger. I’d blow the class group chat wide open with the exact reasons of why I was moving my child (no names) and move my child before any further harm is caused.

It is infuriating being a teacher (where I’m located) when we have behavioral issues that would result in police charges if it happened in the public, the teaching staff are crying out for support and for something to be done and yet the leadership just brush them off with “blah blah, right to an education, terrible home life, etc”. I’m not unsympathetic but when a child has threatened to sexually assault (in explicit detail) a smaller girl - something should be done. That’s a long way of saying, please don’t blame your child’s teacher - in all likelihood she would love for the child to be removed as well, but she doesn’t get a say, probably has no support being offered and would secretly love for you to take this higher and actually force them to do something.

Well done OP, you are doing everything right xxx

Well you’d think ! But on previous thread there was lots of shouts that OP was unreasonable for wanting this kid far away from her child !!

Not the parents, the poo jumper should go to the LA who are not giving the sen provision needed.
Either special school or one to one in mainstream.

They will say they don't have the funds so sadly the autistic child will continue the behaviour and other children will continue to suffer.

I really don't know what the answer is without the necessary funding.

I'm so sorry about your DD

Hi @HollandAndCooper I remember your original thread and could not believe the flaming you got for saying the child should be removed from the school!
I totally agree with you that this can’t continue, it’s not fair.

you are doing everything right and being absolutely amazing for having your daughter’s back!
hope the meeting went well today x

The exclusion isn't going to be your call unfortunately. But I would go armed with the facts and your willingness to take this further against the school.
Right now you need to focus less on the actual other child and more on the actions not taken by the school. Hopefully this will push the school to take more drastic action themselves to refer the child to services that can move him to another more specialised school.
Sorry as this is aweful. I was bullied by some boys in primary and I ended up running away from school one day. Keeping her home is the right thing at this time.

I don't think anyone blamed OP for not wanting the child away from her daughter but parents can't demand that children be excluded, that simply isn't how it works and wouldn't get OP anywhere with school which is what was said and is accurate.

As OP is planning, she needs to keep the focus on her child. Especially including the fact that they are failing to safeguard her child.

This happened to us (although not the poo part). The school made it abundantly clear that the violent child would be staying in the classroom and that no extra safeguards would be put in place. They informed me that my bruised and shaken DD would be given extra lessons in being broad-minded and accepting differences.

So we moved school, because seriously, bugger that. I didn't have the energy to take it up with the governors and home educate DD.

I am so sorry this is happening to your child OP. I can't imagine.
My DD is in reception as well and there is a violent and disruptive boy in her class, lots of pinching and hair pulling etc going on which is only going to get worse. I'm speaking to the teacher about it this week.
I was a SENCO until recently.
Don't focus on the exclusion. Ask the school to involve the LA (or contact them yourself, you want safeguarding and SEN involved). You can also contact the chair of governors. You need to just get them to commit to what they will do to keep your child safe.
The child needs 1-1 at worst and at best a place at a special school that can support him. Sadly this will take months and months to arrange and there's a cost obviously. The school will have to use a TA from another class or fund it themselves (unlikely). No doubt the poor teacher is struggling with it as well and will be able to provide evidence that he needs better provision.

The school sounds absolutely hopeless and I agree with everyone who said you should look to move your DD.

I suspect there is more going on with the other child than “just” ASD, as the level of premeditation / planning / targeting does not sound like a dysregulated or triggered child, but regardless of the reasons your DD deserves to be safe in school and it doesn’t seem like this school is able to keep her safe. I hope I’m wrong and your meeting is productive.

You need to quote the KCSIE document (Keeping Children Safe in Education). Page 10, clause 32:

"32 It is essential that all staff understand the importance of challenging inappropriate behaviours between children that are abusive in nature. Examples of which are listed below. Downplaying certain behaviours, for example dismissing sexual harassment as “just banter”, “just having a laugh”, “part of growing up” or “boys being boys” can lead to a culture of unacceptable behaviours, an unsafe environment for children and in worst case scenarios a culture that normalises
abuse leading to children accepting it as normal and not coming forward to report it.

33. Child-on-child abuse is most likely to include, but may not be limited to:

• bullying (including cyberbullying, prejudice-based and discriminatory
bullying)
abuse in intimate personal relationships between children (sometimes
known as ‘teenage relationship abuse’)
• physical abuse such as hitting, kicking, shaking, biting, hair pulling, or
otherwise causing physical harm (this may include an online element which
facilitates, threatens and/or encourages physical abuse)
• sexual violence6 such as rape, assault by penetration and sexual assault;
(this may include an online element which facilitates, threatens and/or
encourages sexual violence)
• sexual harassment7 such as sexual comments, remarks, jokes and online
sexual harassment, which may be standalone or part of a broader pattern of
abuse
• causing someone to engage in sexual activity without consent, such as
forcing someone to strip, touch themselves sexually, or to engage in sexual
activity with a third party
• consensual and non-consensual sharing of nude and semi-nude images
and/or videos8 (also known as sexting or youth produced sexual imagery)
• upskirting9 which typically involves taking a picture under a person’s clothing
without their permission, with the intention of viewing their genitals or
buttocks to obtain sexual gratification, or cause the victim humiliation,
distress, or alarm, and
• initiation/hazing type violence and rituals (this could include activities
involving harassment, abuse or humiliation used as a way of initiating a
person into a group and may also include an online element)."

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/68b02d1efef950b0909c1734/Keeping_children_safe_in_education_2025_part_one_Information_for_school_college_staff.pdf

• Don't get into the fact that the other child is Autistic. It's irrelevant to your child's need to be Safeguarded.

• Don't ask what they are going to do to control the boy's behaviour. Ask what they are going to do to ensure that your DD isn't physically or emotionally abused at school.

• Don't say that you want the boy to be punished. Say that you want your child to feel safe to come to her place of education and enjoy her school day.

Bring it all back to your DD. They will only get defensive and start talking about confidentiality if you make it about the boy's behaviour. You need to help them to help you by giving them stuff they can talk about.

Best of luck with your meeting OP.

How mortifying for your daughter.

God this is awful, your poor DD. I also was severely bullied as a young child (I had a bald patch where I was pinned down and another child quite literally ripped a chunk out of my hair, I still remember the way my mom cried when she saw me after school that day) the school never did anything about it and ultimately my mom ended up moving me when I was alone 8 and I absolutely thrived at my new school. I know it’s the boy that should be removed, but if you feel like the school cannot keep her safe then it’s something to consider.

Your poor daughter. Seriously OP, find her another school. This one cares more about 'inclusion' wokeness than keeping your child safe. So sorry that her Reception journey has started so badly. It is meant to be such a happy time.

And this child's parents owe you a new cardigan even if they can't control their son's behaviour.

I would also be interested to see which other children this child attacks. If, as I suspect, it’s smaller children in his own year (particularly girls), isn’t it interesting that he can manage not to smear shit on the Year 6 boys?

I often find it’s obvious which children genuinely cannot control their behaviour and which are just nasty bullies from this (have dealt with some year 8s who are just as likely to square up to a teacher or sixthformer as a younger child when frustrated)

You can use apps on your phone to record the meeting and then they will convert it to text. AI can then give you a summary which you can use to create an email to the school after your meeting confirming what was discussed and what was agreed/disagreed on.

A paper trail is very very important

Do let everyone know you are voice recording to create writen minutes of the meeting.