Autistic child attacking DD part 2

[HollandAndCooper]

Original thread here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5420774-autistic-child-attacking-dd?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Hi Everyone,

me back again looking for advice, perhaps some last minute advice as I have a meeting scheduled with the head teacher this morning.

DD aged 4 has been very unwell and spent a week off school. She is really going through it at the moment. She returned to school yesterday after her time off, and I'd hoped that the boy in question would've got bored and moved on. I did have a meeting booked last week but couldn't go due to DD being poorly.

well.. it turns out he hasn't got bored and moved on. It's a very small school with 20-25 per class, one class per year from reception to year 2.

the event that happened yesterday, by DDs account.
it was play time and DD was playing with a couple other girls in the play ground. Child in question was calling DD names like 'baby' and 'you need nappies' and announced he was going to the toilet.
he came back out and proceeded to have faeces on his finger to which he wiped on her cardigan.

a staff member took her to the quiet room, swapped her cardigan for one in lost property and the cardigan was handed to me in a bag on pick up. With still an evident stain on it.

i have a meeting this morning.

I have a copy of the safe guarding policy, anti bullying policy. I just need some wise words from MN now with what I need to say but I'm going down the route of failing to keep my child safe, and this is a huge safeguarding issue, not to mention a biohazard issue.
please be kind, I'm a single parent doing my best, and she won't be returning until she is safe.

so far the child has:
kicked, punched, pinched, clouted her on the head with a metal water bottle, name called and taunted. And now this.

she will not be going back to the school until this is sorted and there are proper sanctions in place. I am so angry and utterly heartbroken for her. She has been so poorly last week and in and out of hospital and I cannot see her broken like this anymore.

i appreciate the old thread is 1000 posts but there's more information on there if needed.
My AIBU is I guess to want this child excluded and put as far away from DD as possible. But I know it's not that simple. I'm at a total loss and they are failing to safe guard my child. She will not be returning until she can be safe, I'm also looking at other provisions for her now.
thanks in advance.

It doesn't sound as "if he IS fit for mainstream"
But there's probably no places in the special schools and no funding for "one to one" in mainstream.

Boy's family are stuck.
OP'S family are stuck.

Bad idea!

I understand that it happened in school - the school is responsible for children's behaviour in school, not the parents.
In fact I doubt the school would even allow the parents of children to supervise their own children at breaks, that would be chaos.
So if someone is supposed to replace the clothing it would be the school, but good luck with that.

Clearly he needs constant adult supervision. I’m sure the school can’t afford it but that’s where they are.

Primary schools are failing children over behavioural issues because they don’t want to label children young, but it then means they are allowed to act how they want.
DDs autistic friend was tormented and attacked by another boy in the class, because he didn’t ‘like him’. He punched him the head and then was picked to go on a special trip the next day. He didn’t have a bad home life, he was just spoiled. Guess who got PermEx from secondary in year 7?
It’s happened over and over again, they thought they would turn badly behaved children around by spoiling them, instead they learned no consequences.

I work in SEN but not this age group, nor this profile really. We excluded a child last year for creating an unsafe environment for others, no violence but manipulation. But we are not mainstream.

Does anyone know what the threshold is for exclusion? (And before I get flamed for discrimination, I’m not- I would be interested to know what a child without a diagnosis or an EHCP would experience if they behaved in these ways. As well as the difference made by a dx, assuming this child has one [OP said in the last thread that his mum says he is autistic, but she has no way of knowing whether this is an assumption or a fact].)
The limitations of what schools can afford are clear, but what can they actually do if they want to?

The mother wasn't there though. The teachers were.

Did you read the other thread? What would be enough to have him excluded- actually breaking a one or outing OPs daughter in hospital. SEN or not this child is a danger and needs to be removed for everyone’s safety, including his own.

I was on your other thread @HollandAndCooper . The update has been deleted but I hope you’re ok. Given it sounds like there was no satisfactory protection plan put forward I would move her, it isn’t worth all this. You shouldn’t have to but leave the school to deal with the child and when he starts hurting others they will eventually have to do something. I personally would be talking to the mother nd once you’ve been paid back putting it on the class WhatsApp group then leaving, but then I’d also give the little shit the fright of his life before now so I am not a nice women!

I hope you and your daughter have the best week together and she loves her fresh start. Well done for protecting her.

The point about SEN is moot unless you actually know. Otherwise you are entitled to know what measures the school will take to moderate the conduct of this boy. Don’t be reasonable about this or kind. It will be deemed as you accepting it. In principle, there does not seem to be anything separating this boy from a simple bully.

The mum wasn't there during the incident, was she?
The teachers were responsible.

I don't know but it is the truth. 🤷 She will be better off moving.

Absolutely!
Luckily (?) OP’s daughter is still too young to fully grasp that “SEN” is apparently considered a valid excuse for smearing shit on other people. Otherwise, I doubt it’d be teaching her much about inclusivity or accepting differences.

The parents of the child need to go into school, remove him from premises for playtimes, come at lunchtime and take him home for lunch. Before anyone shouts, 'they need to work', remember the MN shout of 'school is not childcare ' that coupled with 1-2-1 in class should remove opportunity for him to target anyone.

Attend the meeting and then your child does not return to the school ever again.

Is it though? Do the boys parents even know the extent of his behaviour?

I think that the OP doesn’t want to go near them - but I also question whether the school has even told the parents what he’s been up to.

Which is a common issue with SEN at school (I speak as a SEN parent). Schools do not keep us abreast of what our own kids are doing. It has to get really really insane before anyone lets us know. TBF they should have been told about this shit show, but there’s no guarantee they have been.

Get your child out of that school. They are failing your daughter and their response has been inadequate.

It sounds like he shouldn't be in a mainstream school but most of the special needs schools are full atm.
The waiting list are ridiculous however, if he has an EHP then the school will get funding for him which should cover the cost of a 1 to 1 for him so these incidents do not occur.

There's a big and often unappreciated difference between an explanation and an excuse. The other child's autism may (or may not) explain his behaviour, but it certainly doesn't excuse it. You are being about as far from unreasonable as it's possible to be.

High. Higher for SEN because children with additional needs are protected against discrimination due to their disability.

So a mainstream school has to show that they can't meet the child's needs but they have to follow a process which includes providing evidence to show what they have done to support a child and that it hasn't worked. Excluding a child due to behaviour because they aren't getting the correct support can and will be appealed against so they have to show that they have provided all of the possible support they can give and it has made no difference in the child's behaviour.

Since Reception only just started in September, they will only be at the very start of the process and of course, we have no idea if the child has a formal diagnosis yet and it's also unlikely that a EHCP is in place yet.

I would definitely move schools in your position. You shouldn’t have to, but who knows how long you will have to put up with horrible situations otherwise.

The mother has stood back and watched her child throw sticks at other pupils, repeatedly buzz the intercom before the gates were open with staff speaking through it saying 'please don't buzz, we will let you in shortly'
he also runs over graves and bangs the notice board.

his mother was there the whole time and quite literally turned a blind eye.

A Year 6 bodyguard? I'd be going batshit if that were one of mine.

The mother wasn't there at the time, it was the teachers.

Well they didn't say that but that's how it's coming across isn't it.. and if so, awful.

they do have a group of Y6 buddies that join on trips, forest school (twice a week) and 'help' during lunchtimes and things already but they specifically have said they can match up DD to have a buddy herself to help her have a friend.

she has no problem making friends. She has a little group of friends already.

but yeah I hope the parents of whoever this buddy is are aware and they kick up a stink as I wouldn't be happy.

it's all a moot point anyway as she won't be going back now thankfully

I can really relate to this. I was always told I was 'too sensitive'. No I just didn't like being bullied.