To think that it's about time islamic fundamentalism is dissected and challenged

[diddlysquatagain]

Did anyone read the very interesting article by Matthew Syed (sorry if behind a paywall) - Sunday Times: 'One thing has been holding back the Middle East for centuries':
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/middle-east-religious-fanaticism-iran-kcvh5knn3

"The Middle East was once the centre of the intellectual world. Then it went into reverse. The problem then, as now, is Islamic fundamentalism. No peace or prosperity is possible until the madrassas and other machines of indoctrination are confronted"

A more accurate definition of would be
’the abuse and manipulation of religion for power’

I was in an uber recently w DH who struck up a conversation w the driver. He (driver) was Muslim by birth (can’t remember what country he hailed from), but now an atheist. He was saying how Islam was abhorrent with their treatment of women, only men get any ‘benefits’ or perceived benefits in death (50 virgins or whatever) the women are chained to the sink. He recalled a story that when his mum was ill with cancer in their home country she cried because her husband had to do the washing up. Not because of her pain, because he was doing ‘women’s work’. Obviously we are talking extremes here but this is happening in today’s society. Look at the Taliban ffs.
Obviously there are Muslims who are more modern, lapsed who I have no issue with, I live in London ffs, but i absolutely abhor the fundamental side of it.

i am Jewish. I assume you mean very religious Jews - they’re not fundamentalists. They don’t touch women apart from their wives - because they are preserving ‘modesty’ and not allowing a touch to lead somewhere else. I don’t prescribe to or agree with this, but you can’t compare this to what’s going on in Afghanistan for example. Plenty of religious Jewish women work in successful careers - I certainly know a few. They may work for Jewish firms that allow an early Friday finishing they have understanding enoloyees, but women are not treated in the same way. At all.
Yes, all religious fundamentalists need to be called out, but you’re barking up the wrong tree w Orthodox Jews (and look at how many Jews there are in the world compared to Muslims).

Islamist terrorism is the biggest terror threat to the UK, by a country mile. Yes, other threats are growing but none is anywhere near this as yet.

You’re trying to shut down a conversation that needs to happen. Please don’t.

I am left wing and I agree OP.

Much of left doesn’t like inconvenient truths, cannot face facts in order to protect society when it comes to islam, gender ideology, or immigration.

Much of the right is racist, misogynist and elitist and they hide behind so called patriotism, traditional values etc.

We could perhaps deal with a variety of enormous problems constructively but this will never happen whilst neither side is honest and both are more concerned with calling each other names and political point scoring.

The state of America shows where that leads.

Islamic fundamentalism is not a fringe problem. It’s embedded in the Islamic culture… Take this weekend’s “inclusive” 5k run… that’s inclusive unless you are a woman. That has to be one of the most gaslighting use of the word inclusivity I’ve ever seen!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1kwk1204jno.amp

This wasn’t run by some fringe group, but through the East London mosque,
one of the largest in the UK attracting thousands each week.

And what was the supposedly pro-women Left’s response…. crickets… Imagine their reaction if a church or synagogue had done that.

Spot on.

How on earth the left wing of the UK has been fooled into supporting fundamental Islamism is beyond me.

Whats my agenda?

FGM is a regional problem, and as such is carried out by practitioners of many religions. In Burkino Faso, for example, it's very common amongst Christians. In parts of Nigeria it's not uncommon amongst Christians.

100%. We should have freedom of speech to air our views on Islam.

What do you mean, "about time"? When has Islamic Fundamentalism NOT been dissected and challenged? 😂. This is essentially just a reminder to keep on doing it. How original.

By all means, air them. I just don't understand what you think you'll get out of airing your views? Are you extraordinarily special in any way for your views to hold any merit to anyone?

Really? It’s rarely called out by our Government…. there’s the 5k run at the weekend for starters.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1kwk1204jno.amp

Fundamentalism is a lot more than simply strapping a bomb to yourself.

This always gets me. If you look at a lot of religious practices that people accept today and founded a cult that did the same, you would probably have social services take your kids.

I’ve seen religions describes as cults that have just reached critical mass. I’m inclined to agree with that sentiment.

There is clearly a problem when 75% of MI5’s caseload is islamic terrorism focussed. Thats massive for such a small population. I would say that there are plenty of muslims who don’t support such acts, one jihadi (I forget which one) had people around him flagging him, he was kicked out of his mosque, his family tried to flag him to authorities, clearly the people around him didn’t want anything to do with his radicalism.

I do have sympathy for normal muslims, it must be difficult feeling under siege but full well knowing there is a problem and fearing that somehow you personally will be held responsible for the behaviour of people you don’t even know and would never willingly associate with.

But there is a problem and ignoring it will not make it go away.

I'm a bit confused...how is the Southport stabbing attack an example of White/Christian/Right Wing fundamentalism?

It’s just not as big of a problem in the UK. I keep seeing people trying to push this narrative of some sort of terrorist Christians rising up in the UK and it is just clearly not a thing here. I find it a bit astounding that when we are having Jews murdered for being Jewish, MI5 are worried about Islamically motivated terror attacks and calls for the destruction of Israel every week that some people think we need to worry about Christians. Where is the evidence for this?

I don’t know maybe in 50 years it will be Christians we need to worry about but right now and today that just isn’t the case.

For centuries? FFS, Islamic Fundamentalism as we know it only dates back to the 1920s.

I came onto Mumsnet as a Muslim professional woman — simply looking to connect with other parents, share experiences, and talk about the challenges we ALL face. Sometimes just some light hearted stuff.

But instead, I find myself reading multiple thread filled with misinformation, casual prejudice racism and outright hostility towards Muslims.

People claim to be “concerned” about so-called “radical” Islamic countries — many of which they probably couldn’t even locate on a map — or post unreferenced, distorted claims about our faith and history. I’ve seen comments describing a revered religious figure with vile and inaccurate language, and even calling Islam an “abomination.”

Some posts goingg further by trying to pit other ethnic groups against Muslims, or throwing around prison statistics as if that defines our community.

History is all connected - how lucky those people are to be born in a country that is stable but perhaps read about universities and where it came from- perhaps just google Ibn Sinha.
but you won’t.

Every person writing and allowing these comments should be deeply ashamed. This kind of rhetoric doesn’t “raise awareness” — it incites hurt, spreads ignorance, and alienates families like mine who are simply trying to belong and contribute positively to this country.
If people were truly concerned about the issues they mention, they would be spending their real lives learning, engaging, volunteering, and building bridges — not posting inflammatory comments on a parenting forum.

I’m not sad for myself. I’m sad for my children , for all children from a different background — because they don’t yet have the grounding to fully understand that they can be proud of who they are, proud of their heritage, and proud to belong here without ever having to justify themselves or answer for things happening hundreds of miles away.

Mumsnet should be ashamed that these posts are being allowed to stand. This is supposed to be a community — not a platform for hate

The point I took from the article is that the version of Islam we are experiencing now is not the only one or how it has always been. In fact during the European/Christian dark ages, Islam was a beacon of education and enlightenment.

for various reasons that is not the way Islam in most parts of the Middle East, Pakistan and Afghanistan (but less so in Malaysia) is currently practiced now. In the UK this is exacerbated by a large proportion of the Muslim population coming from extremely tribal communities, hence the issues with cousin marriage and communities closing ranks to protect perpetrators of child rape gangs. Again Matthew Syed has written about this.

we need to be able to rationally discuss these issues and how we navigate what this means for British society. It may well be uncomfortable, but it is clear we are at a tipping point and need to take positive steps rather than let society become more fragmented.

I say this as someone from the Middle East and a Muslim family, though I am an atheist now.

And yet you don’t want to address Islamic fundamentalism, which is a danger to us all.
You say you are not sad for yourself, well neither am I sad for myself, but I am sad and angry for my child in this country she is growing up in and what it will become with the increasing threat of this fundamentalism.

I think that Islam is in a place that Christianity was a thousand years ago ( Crusades) or even 5/600 years ago ( Puritans, Spanish Inquisition).
Christianity spread all across the globe, sometimes peacefully, sometimes very violently. Some proponents of it enacted endless crimes against humanity in the name of it.
Now, on the whole, this wave has subsided and Christianity has mellowed in most places into a background culture, and a set of generally benign principles.
Islam is a much younger religion, and yes, it’s a warrior religion. It might mellow in the same way but it doesn’t show signs of that yet. The trend across the world has been towards a more extreme version everywhere it spreads. I don’t think that European countries where people from Islamic countries were really prepared for the tipping point at which the numbers of people following a religion that is incompatible with modern Christian values became such a powerful social and political force.
Islam seems to flourish in poorer nations for some reason- maybe those populations are less educated and easier to control?
Growing up in a poor and heavily South Asian part of the UK there was a distinct difference in attitudes between Muslim and Hindu/Sikh kids- especially boys. I was not shocked when the grooming scandal broke.
I don’t think there’s anything that can be done other than accept that this is the point in history we are at, and to be vigilant to legislation- Islamophobia legislation or Islamist MPs for example.
This is not about peaceful individuals who follow Islam (I know many) it’s about the culture and security of the country as a whole.

Yes t should be. Fundamentalist Christianity in America is anti women’s rights, anti abortion, homophobic and white supremacist.

@AdvicePleas

i’m sorry that you feel alienated by some of the views on here.

however, I don’t think that Islam should be above criticism or ridicule. Frankly, in the last decade, Christianity and the Church of England has been far more criticised publicly than the Islamic structures that practice in the U.K., simply because it is more transparent and people
are worried about being seen as islamophobic. This does have to change.

As a Muslim professional woman living in Britain, can you honestly say that you’d prefer to live in many of the majority Muslim countries around the world instead? Why not? It’s not because colonialism has ruined them that is the issue now - it’s because religious fundamentalism is still ruining them.

There are lots of things wrong with radical Christianity (homophobia and anti abortion being just two), but it is acceptable to criticise those in the U.K. (one reason why the U.K. has less publicly radical Christianity, unlike the US). Why shouldn’t radical Islam - with its cousin marriage, terrorism incitement and antisemitism - get criticised? No one thinks it represents all Muslims. But it is clear that it represents the views of some Muslims. And it’s ok to say that we don’t like that.

I honestly don’t know why stopping Islamic fundamentalism isn’t the next big civil rights movement. It’s got it all: women’s oppression; anti- LGBTQ+; limits on joy (music, film, alcohol); limits on education…

Instead of protesting radical Islam, the liberal West are activity chanting terrorist death cult propaganda!!! They are literally paying money to see men stand on a stage with Islamic terrorist flags (kneecap gig anyone!).

The women and girls in Afghanistan are suffering terrible oppression and the left and many others don't give a sh*t.