To think that it's about time islamic fundamentalism is dissected and challenged

[diddlysquatagain]

Did anyone read the very interesting article by Matthew Syed (sorry if behind a paywall) - Sunday Times: 'One thing has been holding back the Middle East for centuries':
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/middle-east-religious-fanaticism-iran-kcvh5knn3

"The Middle East was once the centre of the intellectual world. Then it went into reverse. The problem then, as now, is Islamic fundamentalism. No peace or prosperity is possible until the madrassas and other machines of indoctrination are confronted"

It's one big well intentioned social experiment gone terribly wrong. These people above don't want to integrate! Westerners are literally the devil incarnate.

The Left (at least the Corbyn’s and Polanski’s and their ilk) believe the West is the fountain of all evil in the world, so it’s perhaps no surprise that they make common cause with Islamists despite being so different…. My enemy’s enemy is my friend and all that…

Interesting how that works, isn't it. Because should someone who happens to be muslim commit an act of terror it is assumed to be in the name of Islam. The Southport terrorist was a fundamentalist Christian who stabbed a number of girls, and yet we don't ascribe it to his religion. Chatting shit indeed.

Yes, you are chatting shit.
Neither the police nor the courts found any evidence to suggest his crimes were terrorism. But if it makes you feel better you tell yourself that you're theory is right.

Of course his crimes were terrorism, but when it is only Christian men mass killing women and girls we don't call it that. That is exactly the point I was making--not my fault you're too enculturated to see it.

If you are happy to share your evidence to substantiate your claims I will look at it and past it on to the relevant authorities.

He was found in possession of an Al Qaeda training manual.

It’s not an unreasonable assumption.

Sorry I'm not sure I follow. The poster was saying the southport stabbings were committed by a Christian terrorist. Are you suggesting he is indeed a Christian terrorist because he had an Al qaeda manuel? The police found no evidence that this was related to Christian terrorism. But if he was in possession of said manuel perhaps he had an interest in islamic terrorism.

Tbf in the many UK terrorist attacks over the last 25 years, witness statements confirm that the terrorist shout ‘Allahu Akbar’ as they are slashing with a sword, driving a car at people or otherwise trying to kill us.

Have you looked at the number of people killed and injured in the UK and abroad (remember 9/11?) by Islamic terrorists compared to all other groups over the last 25 years?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15205485/Hezbollah-fighter-Israeli-fans-Aston-Villa-safety-risk-dossier.html

I was talking about the widely held assumption PP referred to that he committed those murders in the name of Islam. His possession of an Al Qaeda manual and his mode of attack would appear to lean in that direction.

There is no evidence, despite being born into a Christian family, that he was doing it in the name of Christianity. I am not aware of any Christian leaders in the UK or abroad calling for the murder and subjugation of non Christians. There are Muslims leaders both here and abroad calling for murder of non Muslims.

To be terrorism it would need to have been done in the pursuit of political or religious aims, and not just violence in and of itself, however brutal.

The fact that he may have been a Christian fundamentalist (though that seems highly debatable) wouldn’t automatically have made him a Christian fundamentalist terrorist.

As I recall, he was a very disturbed young man who was obsessed with violence, heavily influenced by the Rwandan genocide which his parents had escaped from. There was no suggestion that he was a fundamentalist Christian at all.

It was much like the young people who commit mass school shootings in the US.

Thank you. Note that it’s more than “shame”, it’s going to end up being a very big problem in the future. You can’t move to a country, rich with culture and heritage, and continue to live your life as if you were in your own country. You need to give back to your new country and adjust yourself to be part of society. The biggest and most dangerous issue with the UK as it stands is its general misunderstanding of the Islamic mindset and the dogged tolerance towards immigrants who insist on not integrating. The UK is packed full of terror cells, and many mosques are lead by Islamist leaders who indoctrinate their congregation against our democratic values. I have heard from my parents how fast this affects others and how it becomes too big to control once it escapes the confines of a small community.
Every single country in the world that allowed itself to be overrun with Islamic oppression has ended up without its precious diversity and freedoms. I understand the attitude that we must be welcoming and tolerant and have empathy - but you need to educate yourselves on the topic in order to be able to keep the extremism contained. Personally I’m not convinced that in the UK we are prepared for what is to come. There are many areas in cities which have become almost ghettoised and exclusive and this will grow very quickly - look how many Muslim mayors and councillors we have.. how do we know how moderate they are really? Look at how easy it is to yell anti British or anti Jewish slogans in the streets and how quickly their counterparts are shut down. This is EXACTLY what happened in Yemen and so many other MENA countries when Islam became the majority and the autocracy. I hope that the government knows what it’s doing. And I also hope that regular Muslims are able to call out these issues in order to protect themselves and our civilians. I may sound dramatic but I know firsthand how this ends.

Personally, I have no time or patience for any religion. I am not pro or anti any faith. In my view it's all silly superstitious crap.

I totally understand and have thought this for ages

@Ayoopkid Every one of your posts is spot on. I hope we are at a point where enough people are aware and willing to talk about it, while not being past the point of being able to actually deal with it. It actually just makes me really sad to see what's happening in this country. And no, it certainly isn't "all Muslims" and it's not about hatred or bigotry. Radical Islam is every bit as dangerous as, say, Nazi ideology. We just can't afford to tolerate it as a society.

Yup, me too. The UK’s suicidal empathy worries me deeply.

this is not an ideology that WANTS to peacefully coexist.

I agree with these two posts. It’s very concerning.

The funny thing is, I actually agree with a lot of what’s being said. People who come here should be part of this country’s society and integrate.

having too much of any one culture in am area isn’t always helpful. But this is what every society does . Every culture has things we should be able to question and challenge if we want to progress.

The issue, both here and around the world (including the one mentioned in the original post), is something that genuinely does need discussion, but in the right environment and with the right intentions. Sadly, this thread quickly has become
a tool to push an agenda instead of an honest conversation.

Everything in life, and in people’s cultures, is nuanced. It’s hard for someone on the outside to fully understand why things are the way they are.
My dad came to this country in the 1950s. He was so excited to be part of it, but he wasn’t welcomed. He was beaten up and learned to be afraid. We, as children in the 1980s, were taught to be careful and to worry about how we were seen.

Muslims are not from one single part of the world; they come from many different regions, and those countries have their own journeys and progression.

My son is learning RE at school as Religion and Worldviews — a broader, more inclusive approach to understanding different beliefs and perspectives and contextual to the country. It’s worth reading about if anyone’s interested.

To those who are genuinely afraid of rising division and hatred, I wish you’d spend time with people from the communities you fear. You might realise that everyone is an individual, not a stereotype.
In my work, I see how often communities are misaligned and misunderstood. Hating “the other” is always easy when they’re different — but understanding takes real courage.
As Jo Cox said, “We are far more united and have far more in common than that which divides us.”

Btw to the person said that that British churches, societies, or schools “don’t exist mainly in Muslim countries.”
that is factually incorrect.
They have historically existed — and many still do — in muslim majority countries across Africa, the Middle , and Asia, especially where there are expatriate communities or a legacy of British presence.

Throughout the British Empire, Britain spread not just its religion through churches and its education through schools and societies, but also its social traditions – pubs, gentlemen’s clubs, cricket clubs, and community halls.

In lots of Muslim-majority countries, these institutions were adapted. You can still find long-established Anglican churches such as St Andrew’s in Abu Dhabi, St Christopher’s Cathedral in Bahrain, St Paul’s in Kuwait, and St John’s in Maadi, Cairo – all of which hold English-language services for local and expatriate communities.

There are also active English congregations in places like the Anglican Centre in Doha, Christ Church in Jebel Ali, and St Martin’s in Sharjah. British international schools often sit nearby, continuing that old connection between church, school, and community.
In non-Muslim-majority countries, like India, Kenya, or Singapore, the British pub and club culture became part of everyday life – with cricket clubs, colonial-style hotels, and old social clubs still going strong. So it’s really not true to say that British-style institutions don’t exist in Muslim countries – they do.

Don’t forget All Saints cathedral in Zamalek, Cairo. I worked at one of the British international schools in Cairo in the mid 90s and we had a C of E chaplain, despite most of the students being Muslim.

Why do I keep seeing posts claiming that Christian fundamentalists are a problem in the UK? It’s really strange. There is no actual evidence for widespread terrorism by christian fundamentalists. It’s very odd.

Because (some) people want to pretend that Christianity is as much of a problem in the UK.

So let’s get this out the way. Christianity isn’t a problem in the UK, it is deeply embedded in the institutions, language, educational system, laws, traditions and culture of the UK. Any strong Christian feeling reinforces the institutions, language, educational system,laws,tradition's and culture of the UK. Christianity does not, therefore have a disruptive influence on British society, it reinforces it.

Christianity is an entirely different religion to Islam. There motivations behind the invention of Islam are rooted in gaining access to the Mediterranean and gaining power, the roots of Christianity are very much based on a resistance movement (albeit later co- opted by an army, but its underlying principles lie in giving the underdog hope). Christianity has evolved again into an almost exclusively spiritual endeavour but its fundamental basis of resistance can still be easily found.

I don't think people are claiming that they are a problem in the UK. Certainly I was refering to the situation in America where they are actively stripping rights from women and Americans.

Every time this discussion comes up it will be diverted as much as possible. Agree with @MyHeartyCoralSnail