To think that it's about time islamic fundamentalism is dissected and challenged

[diddlysquatagain]

Did anyone read the very interesting article by Matthew Syed (sorry if behind a paywall) - Sunday Times: 'One thing has been holding back the Middle East for centuries':
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/middle-east-religious-fanaticism-iran-kcvh5knn3

"The Middle East was once the centre of the intellectual world. Then it went into reverse. The problem then, as now, is Islamic fundamentalism. No peace or prosperity is possible until the madrassas and other machines of indoctrination are confronted"

Inconvenient truths indeed. Why are we always talking about one group in this country? Ie the grooming gangs, terrorism etc.

You never hear people having an issue with Sikhs or Hindus.

It’s all “rAcISm”, isn’t it?

Did the White West collect these statistics? LOL
“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics,”

I agree with you OP but I fear we are sleepwalking into a very grim world. Look at the muted response to the ‘fun run’ which banned young teenage girls and women. Let us not dare protest because we don’t want to offend. More be kind bullshit. And it’s women who have the very most to lose, as per.

It’s why the raping gangs went on for so long. Officials were afraid of being seen as racist against the predominantly Pakistani, Muslim males that were destroying the lives of young, vulnerable women.

Shameful!

Oh please.

Real people being killed and oppressed is more important than your feelings, I’m so tired of everyone having to bow down someone declares that they’re offended.

And I’m sorry, but the audacity to presume all of us are white, or don’t follow current affairs, or can’t locate other countries on maps. I’m not trying to out myself, you don’t know the background of anyone here.

And yes, Muslims come from a wide variety of countries and cultures.

I know Muslims from countries like Albanian and Kurdistan who are very liberal, a few who are openly gay even. There are also Muslims who live highly conservative and segregated lives. Others who have strong faith and principles but are tolerant of others.

OP’s title specifically mentions fundemnetalist Islam, which you should be afraid of, too.

Yanbu op. And this.

Thankfully we no longer have to tiptoe around a human rights issue due to accusations of bigotry. Islamism in the UK has:

1. Been responsible for 80% of terror attacks in the UK and killed 100 people since the Millennium as well as injuring thousands
2. Seen mobs surrounding primary schools demanding their own strict moral code should be taught within schools and threatening teachers who do anything they don’t like with regards to Islam. One teacher is in hiding
3. Seen other people stabbed or grievously injured for exercising their right to free speech about Islam
4. Enabled a culture whereby non-Muslim white girls were raped en masse while the perpetrators aggressively used their race and religion to scare the useless authorities into not investigating. Communities turned a blind eye.
5. Created unsafe zones for women around asylum hotels where the majority of men are from Islamic countries where women are seen as inferior beings
6. Forced us to accommodate non-British customs in the name of ‘tolerance’ such as barbaric animal slaughter
7. Seen ‘our’ politicians of Muslim heritage all but abandon their constituents the moment the Gaza war broke out in favour of relentlessly campaigning for Hamas Palestine, while calling everyone else racist for not taking as much interest in the conflict as they’re white (pot kettle?).
8. Seen similar politicians campaign for cousin marriage which is creating 5,000 disabled children a year with a low quality of life and who the British taxpayer is forced to finance, as well as trapping more women into caring duties because the men won’t be doing any of it

Need I go on?

We are not deeply ashamed to be concerned for our children's future, nor are we racists, bigots or islamaphobic.

Yes, but they don’t throw gay people off buildings do they.

And restricting abortion rights is hardly comparable with the lack of rights women have in Afghanistan, which whereas may not be as extreme here (it can’t be legally) but it’s still really oppressive for many.

And there are many fundamentalist Black and Latino Christians in the US. Only a tiny number are white suprematists

And you’re free not to adhere to fundamentalist Christianity… In Islamic countries, the punishment for leaving the religion is death, as explicitly prescribed in the Koran.

It’s an inconvenient truth, but a truth nonetheless, all religions are not the same.

My SIL renounced Islam and became a Catholic. She can no longer visit her home country as she would be jailed or executed as apostate. Nice.

Lefties on this thread.

It does seem to be used in response a fair bit. And no they are not all the same, I agree.

@AdvicePleas

It’s telling that you need to refer back to the 11th century to Ibn Sinha as an example of a great Islamic thinker.

I have no issue with individual Muslims, many of whom are wonderful people, but with Islam itself. In the same way I have a big issue with the Jehovahs Witness cult or Mormonism but believe many are wonderful people trapped within it… (a couple of family members are JWs for instance).

Islam has not undergone the Reformation and Enlightenment that Christendom which allowed for genuinely free thought and exploration. Islam requires a belief in the inerrancy of the Koran, including all its fantastical elements (e.g. the flying horse/buraq) on pain of death. People can’t develop the sophisticated and innovative thinking needed for the academic development that is the bedrock of our universities if your mind is constrained by the dictates of an illiterate 7th century nomad.

And you think MN should take all posts down that dare to criticise Islam! That’s the difference… Western societies have grown and thrived based on an acceptance of debate, even fervent disagreement, and a tolerance of opposing opinions and the right of others to hold them. Islamic societies simply do not allow this.

I don’t understand the Muslim MNetter complaining.

Ds’s best friend is Muslim. We socialise with the parents. They do not associate themselves at all with fundamental religious Muslims who live en masse in certain towns/cities and in fact speak very scathingly about them.

I don’t understand the Muslim MNetter complaining.

Ds’s best friend is Muslim. We socialise with the parents. They do not associate themselves at all with fundamental religious Muslims who live en masse in certain towns/cities and in fact speak very scathingly about them.

I wonder what would happen to a Catholic went to a Muslim country and then returned home… Nothing.

All religions are not the same. And I’m saying this from a standpoint of someone who doesn’t call myself a Christian!

@AdvicePleas

People claim to be “concerned” about so-called “radical” Islamic countries — many of which they probably couldn’t even locate on a map

I’m not concerned about radical Islamic countries, though I feel sickened thinking of the life of women living there….

Rather, I’m concerned about Islam gaining disproportionate influence here in the UK, all on the watch of a Labour Government who seem more concerned with getting Muslim votes than protecting wider society and values of freedom and equality.

This is really novel and unique.

I have never heard of Islamic fundamentalism being discussed or challenged before.

Ever.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post OP-it’s only recently that the ‘M’ word has been allowed to be discussed openly - no thanks to the BBC and MSM but You Tube and Podcasting has opened up the debate to those who have been silenced or afraid to air their views on this topic for decades, for fear of being seen as racist. It’s the same regarding the illegal immigrants arriving in boats. It wasn’t allowed to be discussed openly for fear of being labelled racist, until Nigel Farage made it ok to discuss publicly. There is absolutely nothing immoral or racist about wanting your government to protect its borders and put its own people first. Wokeness and fear of speaking out has now gone so far, its hopefully backfired and we can all state our opinions without hearing the ‘R’ word bandied about, or cancelled - if we have any kind of status to cancel. So; in my lifetime, I have not felt threatened by any religion, ever, apart from fundamentalist Muslims. And in my experience (my own lived experience) there are not enough of them willing to stand up and call out the fundamentalists of their own faith-they are nowhere to be heard, bar one fantastic lady I heard recently on Talk TV who actually came out and said just what I’ve mentioned here. I didn’t catch her name at the time, -possibly Luba Zaidi but it was a breath of fresh air to hear her speak. I don’t live in the South - but in a fairly affluent area further north, (think ABC1 demographic) and believe me, I am not in the minority in my opinion.

Lubna. She has been threatened and harassed into leaving her home so she is indeed extremely brave and proving a point.

Did you read the article @AdvicePleas? Because it talks about how the Islamic world used to be the centre of the intellectual world until a cleric came along, stated this was ungodly (I paraphrase - do read the article), and hey presto, centuries of lack of education for Muslims that continues to this day.

Your children are very lucky to be living in a country with some of the world’s best universities, that has good education free for all. In a Muslim country it would seem that’s much less likely, especially if they are girls.

So maybe teach them that as well.

I am so sorry you have to deal with this kind of thing here and in society as a whole.

I am exhausted by the constant Islamophobia and I am not even religious so I cannot imagine how it must feel actually being muslim. All I can say is not everybody sees Islam and muslims as this great threat to our very existence.

And nor does every subscribe to collective responsibility / viewing all muslim people as a monolith.

Not much else to add aside from that.

Did you read the article?

All muslims think this? All of them?