To think that it's about time islamic fundamentalism is dissected and challenged

[diddlysquatagain]

Did anyone read the very interesting article by Matthew Syed (sorry if behind a paywall) - Sunday Times: 'One thing has been holding back the Middle East for centuries':
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/middle-east-religious-fanaticism-iran-kcvh5knn3

"The Middle East was once the centre of the intellectual world. Then it went into reverse. The problem then, as now, is Islamic fundamentalism. No peace or prosperity is possible until the madrassas and other machines of indoctrination are confronted"

The late great Christopher Hitchens sums up in 1 minute why Islam is different to other religions

m.youtube.com/watch?v=u6cpNhMx_AE

I can’t see anywhere in the MI5 website where they say that the threat of ‘far right terrorism’ is catching up with Islamic terrorism?

In fact their website says this:
Islamist terrorism is the most significant terrorist threat to the UK by volume.
Islamist terrorists are generally driven by an extreme interpretation of Islam or perceived grievances against ‘the West’, particularly those propagated by terrorist groups such as Daesh (also referred to as ISIL, ISIS or the Islamic State) or al-Qaeda. Much of the volume of the threat is from individuals who have self-radicalised, seeking to carry out attacks using unsophisticated or low-sophistication methodologies. Generally, individuals will decide themselves to conduct an attack, rather than the attack being directed or controlled by a terrorist group. This can make it harder to identify terrorist activity.

Can you point to any ‘far right’ terrorist attacks that have actually killed or maimed anyone in the UK in the last 20 years or so?

So far I have found one report of a group of 3 blokes who had never met in real life planned a terror attack against Jewish people but were caught and convicted.

Interestingly this is what MI5 say abut Islamic terrorism, it is so prevalent and so many people have been killed in the UK in the last 20 years that it has almost become synonymous. The reason for that is fact, not ‘anti Muslim’ sentiment.

Even the Southport murderer gained his inspiration from Islamic terrorist manuals.

International Terrorism
International terrorism refers to terrorism that goes beyond national boundaries in terms of the methods used, the people that are targeted or the places from which the terrorists operate. Since the emergence of Al Qaida in the 1990s, international terrorism has become largely synonymous with Islamist terrorism. Terrorist groups in Syria and Iraq, including Al Qaida and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, possess both the intention and the capability to direct attacks against the West.
Linked to this, UK nationals travelling overseas to serve with extremist groups as ‘foreign fighters’ present a potential threat to the UK, both while they are overseas and when they return to the UK.

Thoughts?

It’s pointless. We could all be under sharia law and trussed up in veils and masks and still (in the future dark web location of MN) there would be posters proclaiming, “But wotterbout the far right ?!”

The FGM Research Initiative, UNICEF, copfgm… all the organisations that actually fight FGM report the same. In the countries I named, FGM is most prevalent among Catholic women. It is a cultural issue, not a religious one. But let’s not let facts get in the way of a good old bit of Muslim bashing 🙄

I’m sure you’ll find that if they knew about the practices of the ‘Exclusive Brethren’ , most people would condemn them equally.

It’s likely just that because there are only 55,000 EBs worldwide, not many people have ever heard of them.

Part of the issue here is that because police have been trained to ignore abuse perpetrated on religious grounds largely down to the requirement not to upset the Muslim community, they can end up ignoring all religious abuse. That is not healthy. We must be able to call out ALL religious abuse.

Why have you made this about race when Muslim isn’t a race and white Muslims exist?

You think the mythical far right terrorists in the UK are catching up with the 43000 Islamic terrorists on MI5’s terror watch list?

We must also all start fearing unicorns, so as to make sure none of us are being bigoted towards Islamists.

But why did you pick out the two Christian countries and ignore the seven Muslim countries?

Are you suggesting that the Government and WHO are ‘Muslim bashing’? It comes to something when sharing government data is labelled ‘Muslim bashing’ - have you ever stopped to think about this properly?

If Muslims are so against FGM and are in majority control in the countries I named above, why haven’t they stopped it? They know how to exert huge control over a population - we’ve seen that already - they could just stop it if they wanted.

I mentioned upthread that I went on a training session run by anti terror police in partnership with child social services. They said, with data to back this up, Islamic terror is the biggest threat. I asked about extreme, Andrew Tate style misogyny and were that fits in the pie chart and if its classified as terrorism. Police said this is a growing threat and data is only just starting to be kept on that as a separate category as it doesn't fit neatly into far right/left/islamist as it overlaps them all. There didn't seem to be any such thing as Christian or any other religion motivated terrorism in the UK (training was only about the UK). All terrorism was overwhelmingly male.

As for accusations of islamphobia, well phobia means fear, so yes, I do have a phobia of Islam. I could criticise, ridicule and mock any other religion going without a single thought for my own safety, with Islam I would be risking death to do so. I don't think my fear is unreasonable.

As the working definition of Islamophobia for the Labour Party is criticising ‘expressions of Muslimness’ (which can include FGM, first cousin marriage, forced marriage, issuing of fatwas etc), I’m not surprised that reports are on the rise.

And it’s people like you trying to stop us talking that are part of the problem.

Yes agree.

You’re being a bit naïve. It’s not about white Muslims — white Muslims generally aren’t being attacked.

I didn’t say Muslims were any colour. I said the exclusive Brethren are white. There’s a lack of visible racial minorities in their ranks, and that affects how much scrutiny they face.

And those figures are only for the Plymouth Brethren (who are a lot more diverse). They don’t include another 46,000 in other closed Brethren sects or data from exclusive brethren offshoots. I’m not saying that makes them more of a threat or arguing with your point here — just pointing out they’re very good at evading data collection.

Challenged by whom? We've had wars in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Palestine and various uprisings in Tunisia and notably Syria and Yemen where they turned into civil war.

To what extent should other countries who have apparently "the right way of doing things" impose their will and force on others?

I'd prefer we didn't get involved except through the UN and was never in favour of being involved in the 2000s. What does he want, WW3 to sort it all out? Because not even that would.

This. Also the UK has interfered. It hasn't gone well.

I suppose some posters would be glad if the “Islamophobia” law came in and this thread could not exist.

I agree about the Saudi factor, but on a smaller level it is about this fear of causing offence which is innately British but has now bitten us on the bum, and the base issue of votes. Labour have had it though. They can capitulate and promise all they like but the Your Muslim party will wipe the floor with them come 2029.

Idk why the Saudi point had to be made with the usual derision by pp. Most people are aware of that.

The fact Maccabi fans have been banned because we cannot guarantee THEIR safety from Muslims really shows what a shithole we have become.

Might as well let Birmingham secede from the UK (but they can raise their own taxes…)

I'm glad that other posters have raised this failure/refusal of West Midlands to police the Aston Villa fixture against the Maccabees.

So the local Islamists can terrorise sport with impunity?

Of course it needs calling out. And no it isn’t being called out by large parts of the western radicalised Left. Look at the support for Hamas on our streets, even in a ceasefire as Hamas drag people out onto the streets of Palestine and slaughter them.

We have large areas of Britain which are operating as enclaves. There’s no integration into wider society. Look at the Aston Villa football situation. Jewish fans excluded from an area of our country. Starmer, for once has found his backbone and said (rightly) this is unacceptable. Yet we have Mr Khan a local councillor telling the Prime minister of our country to keep his nose out of the Community’s affairs. It’s not acceptable. Society needs to change, we need to stop bowing down to the “Community” we need to stop allowing this separatism. We need to stop people screeching “Islamaphobia” every time someone raises legitimate concerns about the increasingly radicalised presentation of Islam in the UK. Surely this is as much a problem for people peacefully and privately wanting to practice Islam in this country as for the rest of society.

Do you remember when the left said there was no such thing as no go zones?

“We shall not show mercy to Maccabi Tel Aviv fans travelling to Birmingham for the Aston Villa match” says a Birmingham cleric. Not because they are, say, rival fans and they want to give them a good duffing up, but because they are Jewish .

And to ban the fans is considered the right thing to do….

"it's not safe for football fans to visit my constituency" ayoub khan

Another win for the fanatics and another loss for everyone else.
Also ayoub khan (on gay people):-
"My personal opinion on gay people is well known. You only have to look at what Muslim people believe, what's taught."

I’ve been part of the “white flight” from Birmingham - lived and worked there for over 20 years. It became untenable to live there. I went back in the summer for a gig. It was scary the atmosphere is aggressive, I felt unsafe, like really unsafe.

When we left, we felt in the middle of a turf war between the Chinese and Pakistan communities. Property purchases targeted certain schools, property closest to the targeted schools was purchased and each year cycled round members of the “Community” so that school was effectively single religion.

it’s concerning because the way voting works in this country high amounts of MPs are concentrated disproportionately in these areas.

it’s a crisis for British culture. One you might not recognise until you’ve seen it first hand.

it’s a crisis for British culture. One you might not recognise until you’ve seen it first hand.
This is the problem with the white, left leaning middle class demographic of the country. They don't see the problems day to day and so quite happily spout their woke nonsense. Sleepwalking us into a literal nightmare. One day they will all be forced to open their eyes and confronted by reality, by then of course it will be past the point of return.

I think the reason police/councils etc are bending to this is frankly because they are afraid of the consequences of not doing so. Another win (like teachers in hiding) for the religion of peace.