To be a resentful breadwinner

[maw86]

So, the stats are:

• 2 young kids (1.5 and 4)
• Together 8 years, obviously kids together and a mortgage
• I earn over 3 x more than him - a combination of me earning well as a senior city lawyer (I know, cry me a river etc.) and him not so much as a creative
• I work harder (5 days condensed in 4), have more work pressure etc.
• Household expenses are split 75/25
• I pay for extra stuff on top of that like kids clothes and activities on my NWD with the kids
• During second mat leave I ran up credit card debt to keep covering my share of expenses and have the time off, so I'm paying that off and not saving anything
• He's responsible for laundry, weekly groceries shop, washing up, most drop offs, 2 pick ups, energy bill, cleaning ish (we have a cleaner every 2 weeks)
• I'm responsible for everything else. Budgeting, household admin (insurance, car, buying stuff needed in the house), kidmin, weekend plans and booking things, every element of every holiday, bday/xmas plans/presents, 1 NWD with the kids 2 pick ups and flex on drop offs, whatever else we all do to run a home.

I've been resentful for some time and communicated this to him. My resentment is now spreading into generally feeling not supported / looked after / respected in general. Without being too woo woo I feel like he doesn't hold me up and that we're not a partnership. He isn't great at emotional support and I feel like he dampens my spirit rather than lifts it. Our romantic/sex life is non existent. We've been round the houses talking about some of these gripes for years and he wants to do better but isn't hitting the mark. He is a good dad in terms of how he interacts with the kids and is "hands on" to an average level. He isn't mean to me or abusive or violent or anything like that. We get on well, have stuff in common, make each other life etc. but this issue is always brewing.

A good friend had a direct word with me today about whether I really see a future with him - she's worried about me burning out and not having what I deserve and was basically angling for me to leave. Obviously she's biased, in the best way, so I'm here for some neutral views and different opinions. I know I am definitely not alone as a woman carrying the mental load and a disproportionate chunk of household responsibility, so is that just the way it is? Is there something else at play here around missing a kind of masculinity / protector / supporter figure? Am I being taken for a ride or am I a shallow b*tch?!

Bracing myself...

But presumably it’s fine and desirable for high-earning men to date women who earn less? What if all men start saying they won’t date anyone who earns less than them? Why does having a penis mean someone should want to be a provider?

Because women have more to lose and women always end up doing more when childcare enters the picture. There needs to be some security for the woman that should she want (choice is key here) to take a backseat or respite then he can provide to allow that.

Before you harp on about in the event of divorce etc No one is saying don’t have your own career and contingencies.

As for any man saying he doesn’t want to marry a low earner etc that’s a red flag take a look at the countless threads in here where women are stuck with the 50/50 sort where it’s never really 50/50.

I think the fact you don't know how much savings he has is bonkers.

Did you tell him you were running up credit card debt ?

This is the worst part for me. He should have been financially supporting you at this time and if he couldn’t then any debt should have been joint.

Can you clarify the childcare side?

In your OP you said he did "most drop offs and two pick ups" and you did occasional drop offs, two pick ups and your NWD - which is pretty even - but your update has changed this quite a bit to just "some drop offs"

On finances - you don't know how much he has in savings (which I find weird) but how mutual is it? Has he always known how much you have in savings? Or is it that you have always had separate finances?

How did the mat leave stuff unfold? I think when the woman earns more than the man, it's not as simple as 'he needs to support her' in mat leave because the lifestyle is set up with both incomes. We earn the same and had to save together for mat leave because neither of us earn enough to cover everything for months on end.

The mat leave debt absolutely should be joint, but I guess I think it sounds like you got to this place by having very separate finances and decision making - and it doesn't so far sound like that has been a him thing but that you also have been quite set on separate finances

Out of curiosity - do you think you support him emotionally and he doesn't support you back or do you think neither of you is supporting the other? Is he happy with your relationship?

Kids this age are hard - I think it would be hasty to split up without making some attempt to understand what's missing for you and fix it

I don't get the debt bit either. But more if she's in such a well paying job then surely savings would've been put aside to cover ML rather than run up debts

It is ridiculous you were still subsidising your DP when you were on maternity leave and going into debt. It sounds a very unsatisfactory set up indeed. Would you be better off on your own and employ a nanny. But I think emotional support from a partner is just something that doesnt always happen for a lot of people.

This is true. No matter how equal things are, after having children things change. Both partners change as well because you become parents and the priority is the children's wellbeing.

Household expenses are split 75/25
I pay for extra stuff on top of that like kids clothes and activities on my NWD with the kids
During second mat leave I ran up credit card debt to keep covering my share of expenses and have the time off, so I'm paying that off and not saving anything

I don't understand this.

Why was the credit card debt in your name only? Why didn't you both save in advance? Why did this remain just your problem to solve?

I know a few people have commented on how this would be treated differently as a post if the roles were reversed for sex and he was the higher earner but it's not the same.

Would he have covered your expenses to cover your 25% of the bills? Or would he still expected you to pay whilst you were on mat leave? This would be just frowned on by MN as Mum is doing 'labour for the household and investing in family' thus is contributing to the household.

Instead you had to do BOTH the birthing and maternity thing whilst maintaining all the financial burden.

This is where the 75/25 falls down for you.

You still take the financial penalty of BOTH the impact to your career AND the financial burden of having to cover the 75%. This is fundamentally different to a partnership where the man is the higher earner - he'd retain the stress of the bulk of the financial burden and tbh in a progressive arrangement you'd expect a recognition of your contribution to the household and expect him to take on extra financially responsibility during this period to bridge the gap.

Instead you have all the financial risk exposure and all contributed the physical labour. He didn't do either. At the very least, this is where shared financial liability should have kicked in, at least temporarily for this period of your life. Id argue that if you are 75/25 he should have been contributing at least 25% to that debt and had his name on the debt.

This makes a higher female earner relationship difference in its economic balance to one with a higher male earner and arguably they should be treated differently to take into account who takes the financial risk and the contribution to the household that the act of giving birth and taking maternity covers.

I suspect this is where resentment has crept in, despite him outwardly perhaps appearing more progressive than more traditional set ups. It's not actually as progressive as it might appear on the surface and it ISN'T a straight role reversal because of where burdens lie. Despite being a lower earner, he still should have stepped up in someway over that period and you feel like he hasn't recognised what you've done and how the burden has been squarely all on you. That's not expecting him to cover your 75% of bills - it's expecting him to contribute to some of the shortfall over time - stepping up to help even if it's a small percentage rather than you shoulder it all.

It's not so easy to see this inequality - it's the hidden labour issue. Having a child is a financial contribution to society and a provision of household labour even though it costs money. The fact he does some household stuff and is the lower earner disguises this.

I think you need to think about what you mean by a team. From what I can see you're in the intense bit of parenting, have a full on career and pretty minimal paid help to keep on top of everything. He works hard and appears to pull his weight. I'd be looking at making sure you both get equal free time and increasing the frequency of your cleaner to once a week for a start.

I wonder if you're blaming your partner because it's the easiest part to run away from? I'd suggest you try to reconnect as a couple and prioritise having fun and falling in love again so you're in a good place to address the challenges. You may find a lot doesn't annoy you so much if you try it. At the moment you're focusing on all the bits that don't satisfy you. See if switching things up helps.

I found things much easier as dd got older and my marriage became better too. We both work hard and play hard and support each other but it took a while and some hard yards to get here. The only thing you can change is your approach and I'd try that first before splitting your family up if he's fundamentally decent.

I also earn more than my husband. I also do most of the housework. I do all the kidmin.

Imagine it being the other way around. If he earned significantly more. I’m sure it would be expected and agreed that you took on most of everything else. Why is it when the man is not the breadwinner, that doesn’t happen? It really pisses me off too, playing the “traditionally male” role and also most of the “traditional female” role. While my husband lives this wonderful life I’ve created around him. Just an example: I’ve been able to afford a flashing new electric SUV, beautiful car, while my husband drives a 15 year old hatchback. My husband borrows my car all the time and shows it off to his work friends etc. I know it’s really petty, but it annoys me because he’s driving it around like it’s his. If he did 100% of the housework and kid work I would t mind…he would at least then be putting in the work to afford the lifestyle I provide… but he doesn’t. I do it. I earn more. I am the man and the woman and he is kind of an extra kid. Strangely, our sex life is also non existent and I’m sure it’s because of this imbalance and strange relationship dynamic. Hard to feel sexual desire for someone who doesn’t see you and, as you phrase it, is taking you for a ride.

I love that I can “have it all”. But the problem is, it has left a gap for some men to treat women like they are their mummies…

Who earns what shouldn't really cone into it in a loving relationship. Sounds like yours isn’t, but I really can't see what your dh has done wrong on particular.

you don’t sound like a partnership at all. You talk about him like he’s some annoying housemate who’s not pulling his weight rather than someone you love and want to make a life with, together. There are ways round all the issues you raise, but you need a solid base of something - love , respect, mutual commitment, a shared vision of where you are going. Do you have that? You don’t talk at all about how you got together and decided to make a family together.

DH and I have taken it in turns to be the bread winner. We pooled everything from day one, and we both have equal access to family money. We don’t have any major plans atm, but we are both equally committed to family life, kids, etc.

What does your DP think? Is he happy?

My partner actually earns significantly less than me. But we do not live together or have children; and his personality and skills are (in a good way) such that he will never be seen as the weaker party in any relationship.

My experience is that men and women are different. I do think that the man who takes a back seat when children are young, in terms of being a provider & support, will become much less attractive to the mother of his children as a result. (This ‘taking a back seat’ might be because - as in this case - he relies on her to be the main earner, or alternatively - at the other extreme - because he earns well but never engages with the children. Either is a huge turn off for the female partner, emotionally & sexually, & leads to resentment.)

I think it is unfortunate there is not more honesty in society about this- in fact quite the opposite. The result is that women feel guilty and ashamed when their feelings for the weaker, ‘back seat’ ‘male partner, who is not performing the role needed in the relationship, wither & die.

WAIT !! You paid your 75% share with a credit card while on maternity leave? WTF ?

I came here to say most men are sole bread earners while women glorify their non financial contribution and expect men to still help at home.

🙄

Hi OP I’m similarly the breadwinner, mine is more like 4x and we have primary aged kids. My DP is great though, he’s very hands on with the kids, does the shopping and cooking and kids pick ups. We share washing and cleaning as we both WFH. All money is joint so goes into an account and we get spends.

I would say I still do more of the mental load, but I’ve spoken with him about it in the past so he does a lot more.I found that including him in the thinking and creating a list of things plus a shared calender of events helped massively, so it’s probably more like a 60/40 split now.

Definitely have lots of conversations with him, it’s worth putting in the effort to try and make it work. Your kids are very young, and the physical toll does get easier as they get older.

Also worth adding that my DP supports me being able to have the job I have, his job gives me the freedom to not worry about pick ups or if I need to travel with work or work late. He picks up the slack so I can do what I do. If he had a similarly high level job, we’d struggle giving the kids the life they have where they get collected by a parent every day and we don’t use babysitters or family etc. He takes parental leave when the kids are sick etc.

What does your DH do, OP? You are a lawyer, so if he is a doctor or even a Professor, you would out-earn him. That doesn’t mean he cannot provide, it just means he cannot provide to your standard. Would you be happy to adjust your lifestyle to his income ?

Does the 75% contribution come from the fact that you want a lifestyle that he cannot afford ?

Is there something else at play here around missing a kind of masculinity / protector / supporter figure

No i don't think its that, but you need a partner who shares the load properly and doesn't leave you worked to the bone. DH isn't in any sort of "protector" role (i am a grown up, i do not need protecting) but he is a true partner, we are a team

What does he do, OP? Is he employed FT/PT but just a low earner because of his role/industry, or is he self employed or freelance and taking or leaving work as it comes? I think that also affects things.

I say this a lot on MN but so many relationships with issues on here are founded on the under functioner/over functioner pattern.

Over time the under functioner creates a relationship which focuses on serving their needs to the detriment of the over functioner and trains the over functioner to normalise that type of relationship. In my experience under functioners can have great superficial qualities like charm and charisma or they can be the opposite and be quite needy and dependent. Over functioners are highly competent, usually hardworking industrious and problem solvers. I think the over functioners are often fixers or have a strong need to be needed

The relationship dynamic must be exhausting for the over functioner.

Especially the bit where she describes his cleaning at "ish" because they have a cleaner once a fortnight. With small children, a cleaner fortnightly is a fart in the wind compared to how much cleaning is needed.

There is also language like "I work harder"/get paid more which if a man used about his lower earning wife would get them vilified on here.

I can understand that being the weekend planner when you have been working all week can be tedious - but how much work is that? If the kids have clubs, then that is a recurring thing and taken care of (unless what you mean is that you have to sort out all their kit/money for clubs each week). What's wrong with having a lazy weekend together once/month? I feel very old saying this but it feels to me like many of my colleagues with young children must have every day filled with enriching activity for their child planned out, instead of "let's stay at home, maybe go to the park if the kids are full of beans".

Based on your OP it sounds like household responsibilities are reasonably fairly split. It’s the finances that are causing the issues. Maybe it would work better for both of you to put all your money in the pot and then have equal “pocket money” for yourselves, at least whilst the DCs are young and you are both working ft. I earn less than DH because I reduced my hours when DS was young and I am not as driven as him, but I felt I was making equal contributions to the household.

I think the financial set up is because you’re not married. Is that something you are both agreed on.

100% agree not every woman is looking for a ‘protector’ — but I do think @FutureMarchionessOfVidal’s first paragraph nails it:
‘When pervasive resentment enters the mix in a relationship, it’s pointless asking whether it’s reasonable or unreasonable. It just is. And it won’t go away even if everyone tells you that it’s unreasonable.’

OP, I’ve not RTFT so apologies if others have already suggested this, but would you consider counselling to help you unpick your thoughts and feelings more fully? That might then help inform where you go from here…

What’s the point of him? Why have a dog and bark yourself? He sounds like another child. Doesn’t bring in the money and does the odd practical job as directed around the house. Meanwhile, you do all the thinking, the planning, the mental load and you’re bankrolling him. That’s simply not fair.