To be a resentful breadwinner

[maw86]

So, the stats are:

• 2 young kids (1.5 and 4)
• Together 8 years, obviously kids together and a mortgage
• I earn over 3 x more than him - a combination of me earning well as a senior city lawyer (I know, cry me a river etc.) and him not so much as a creative
• I work harder (5 days condensed in 4), have more work pressure etc.
• Household expenses are split 75/25
• I pay for extra stuff on top of that like kids clothes and activities on my NWD with the kids
• During second mat leave I ran up credit card debt to keep covering my share of expenses and have the time off, so I'm paying that off and not saving anything
• He's responsible for laundry, weekly groceries shop, washing up, most drop offs, 2 pick ups, energy bill, cleaning ish (we have a cleaner every 2 weeks)
• I'm responsible for everything else. Budgeting, household admin (insurance, car, buying stuff needed in the house), kidmin, weekend plans and booking things, every element of every holiday, bday/xmas plans/presents, 1 NWD with the kids 2 pick ups and flex on drop offs, whatever else we all do to run a home.

I've been resentful for some time and communicated this to him. My resentment is now spreading into generally feeling not supported / looked after / respected in general. Without being too woo woo I feel like he doesn't hold me up and that we're not a partnership. He isn't great at emotional support and I feel like he dampens my spirit rather than lifts it. Our romantic/sex life is non existent. We've been round the houses talking about some of these gripes for years and he wants to do better but isn't hitting the mark. He is a good dad in terms of how he interacts with the kids and is "hands on" to an average level. He isn't mean to me or abusive or violent or anything like that. We get on well, have stuff in common, make each other life etc. but this issue is always brewing.

A good friend had a direct word with me today about whether I really see a future with him - she's worried about me burning out and not having what I deserve and was basically angling for me to leave. Obviously she's biased, in the best way, so I'm here for some neutral views and different opinions. I know I am definitely not alone as a woman carrying the mental load and a disproportionate chunk of household responsibility, so is that just the way it is? Is there something else at play here around missing a kind of masculinity / protector / supporter figure? Am I being taken for a ride or am I a shallow b*tch?!

Bracing myself...

I think what's different is that when it's a much lower paid female partner, typically that female partner doesn't also work full time.

The DP here is working full time, just earning less. It's not like he has loads more time on his hands than the OP. He has a bit more and picks up more of the time intensive chores.

But it's worth considering whether that arrangement would make her happier - i.e. him going part time and picking up the household management

I also think the OP has a much sweeter deal on household labour - I would far rather plan and book holidays and do the life admin than do all of the laundry for a household of 4. But that's in part personal preferences - she implies a few times that this is her preference

Does he cook ?

Why can't he organise every other birthday, holiday, Christmas or why don't you discuss together ?

No, you are not a shallow bitch, neither unreasonable.
Speaking for myself, I would absolutely live just with my children, if in your place.

wholeheartedly disagree. If someone wants extended time off after the paid mat leave period it is BOTH partners’ responsibility to work out how to fund that, just as parenting/childcare/chores is a joint responsibility. Women do not “do more housework and childcare” by default. It’s a choice. If you have a useless husband who doesn’t do anything then I’m sorry you have to put up with that but it isn’t and doesn’t have to be the norm.

so according to you men who don’t want to marry low earners and possibly subsidise them forever in the event of divorce are red flags but women who feel that way about lower earning men are totally justified. Righty ho.

You say that you have a cleaner too

I recommend buying a robot hoover, they are easy to use.

What do you do for fun as a couple ?
Can you swap the cleaner for a baby sitter instead, go to cinema, meal out, theatre

If you could change anything, what would you change ?

You have children & work FT, did you think that it would be easy ?

A boyfriend is solely for enhancing your life and making everything a lot easier and fun.

That's the entire point. If this dependent bloke is failing to enhance your life just dump him. Co-parent via an app.
Life is for enjoying.

Marriage is a partnership. I earned about double what my DH did for 15 years. I still earn more even though I’m part time. However it sounds like you have other faults in the relationship. I would say given your strong economic position you should ask the question’ do I need him in my life?’ Be careful what you wish for though. You may jump out of the frying pan and into the fire. You are hardly going to find someone to hold you up when you are already quite successful. Are you looking for a millionaire so you don’t have to work? Or are you looking for more of an emotional prop? It’s not clear.

I think the ages of your children and full time stressful jobs are maybe the problem here, and probably both of you feel resentful to some degree. It’s a really tough time, with a never ending list of stuff to get through. For what it’s worth, my friends have said when the youngest child is about 4ish is when things have really improved for them.

I have a one and three year old and we both work in London in pretty full on jobs. I actually think I feel burnt out and very stressed, but speaking with my partner, I think he feels similar. We were maybe both overestimating what we do, and underestimating the others contribution. Until recently I’ve out earned him like you, but I have just dropped half a day, and he has got a new job that pays a lot more so it’s evening up. Your split does sound fair, but I completely understand that you might be feeling resentful just because of the demands on you. If he is working full time and taking on what he is doing, he probably is feeling stressed also

I wonder if maybe couples counselling would be worth it before making any rash decisions. And I’d really recommend booking a couple of days holiday when the kids are in childcare, and just taking a day for yourself. No chores, just reading, exercising, watching Netflix, whatever you feel like doing to recharge a bit.

I do think part of the issue is that the senior city lawyers I know at least have a lot more domestic support than it sounds like you do.

They all have a weekly cleaner. Then they either have a nanny who is longer hours than a nursery and can also babysit in the evenings sometime or their spouse works part time. They also all outsource quite a lot of stuff generally. Our cleaner, for example, deals with sheets and towels - changes the beds and towels and puts the dirty ones in the wash.

You talk about him as though it's his annual appraisal, in some kind of performance related marriage.

I also winced at this from the first post he wants to do better but isn't hitting the mark

Well I see you earn more but he seems to do most of the physical work and you the admin .the childcare seems about the same .you obviously are resentful about the money .maybe encourage him to retrain but sorry admin thinking of every holiday is not a horrendous stress .maybe you are just falling out of love with him .that's OK if that's true but it doesn't look like he is a bad person

Your maternity leave debt jumped out at me. He should definitely have contributed more while you were on maternity leave if you had no income at that time. I assume that your job is much more stressful and less enjoyable than his and it's very hard to be the one who carries most of the financial burden.

OP I have not read the full thread but have read all your posts. There is a problem because you are not happy. I think you need to sort out exactly why you are not happy in order to fix it. Some points from me for you to consider:

• As others have said, taking on the loan in mat leave was insane and really sticks out. I also question strongly, given your career, why you needed to do so. Why do you not have several months worth of savings to fall back on? I think you need to look at your financial management. Do a budget for all your expenses. Work out how much you are paying, how much your partner. Include all your spending not just the formal 75/25 split. Either you need to cut unnecessary expenditure or I suspect you are paying way more than 75% in total. Find out! I would pay off your loan and work towards min 6 months spending saved before any major expenses such as holidays- you can’t afford it!
• To work 5 full days compressed into 4 with small children is a heck of an ask. I don’t know how you keep that up. Consider going to 4 days work or even 3 finances depending. Or 4 days hours over 5 days and leave early. Tell your partner you can’t cope any more so the % split for costs needs to change - or at a minimum reduce costs.
• Normally when unmarried parents share costs unevenly it is because one partner (usually female) has taken a hit to their earning capacity to take on family and caring responsibilities. Has that actually happened here? I don’t get the impression your partner has a reduction in earning capacity due to home responsibilities has he? He earns what he would have earned if he did not have children and a partner. Assuming this is correct I would consider reducing your shared expenses down to the minimum (maybe smaller house long term? Holidays cheaper ones…) and letting him cover more costs for his lifestyle himself. Use the leftover to pay off debt and build up savings.
• Lastly, Don’t marry him!

You’re missing the point. Some of us are married to breadwinners/ high earners because we are also the high earners and would absolutely not want a low earning man to take advantage of us which given by the threads on mumsnet seems to be a massive issue and common.

Also, I have noticed provider mindset men tend to pull their weight around the house and are hands on parents too. It’s actually two high functioning adults.

In op’s case there’s probably large disparity in their earning and that’s not worked out because whether you like it or not women will always do more, expend more and sacrifice more when children are involved so the least he can do is up his earning potential to take pressure off of her.

Yes, but they’re also married to equally high earners to be able to outsource that. Especially in London the costs become astronomical.

I wonder if you like to be in control and whether you could relinquish some and let him step up? Writing him a list to buy food from is so infantilising.

Give him the kidmin for your youngest, assuming your eldest is at school.

It's nice to be married to someone who will take control of things - but you need to give them the chance!

My DH is not an advance planner and it can drive me nuts. But he'll still get things done in his way.

Also re romantic life, you still have young DC. Give yourself a bit of grace. Do you go on dates?

I get your point but could he actually contribute more? He earns what he earns and if their lifestyle including mortgage etc is calculated based on their joint income then naturally when the higher earner goes on mat leave the overall income to draw on massively drops.

This doesn’t happen when the woman earns less than the man as the man keeps working and gets full pay during mat leave. It is something I am having to grapple with as I out earn my partner. I don’t think there’s an easy solution and it’s probably why women tend to be the lower earners in relationships

Each is responsible for each others sides of the family birthday and Christmas gifts plus cards, if he forgets then just tough if MIL gets sweet FA on her day.

Same. I point blank refuse to take on this emotional labour.

How many men buy the presents and cards for their wives' families I wonder?!

You say “Some of us are married to breadwinners/ high earners because we are also the high earners and would absolutely not want a low earning man to take advantage of us” so by that logic low earning women are taking advantage of high earning men, too.

I think we agree to a point - I like being the higher earner for financial autonomy as I mentioned earlier but I’ve no interest in getting married, for ideological reasons but also because I don’t want any partner having a claim on my assets. Where we differ is that I think it’s fair for high earning men to take that stance too.

I think people are being too dismissive of the husband’s job. If she’s a senior City lawyer she could well be on £200k or (much) more, putting him on £66k+. There’s nothing to suggest that it’s a “hobby job” simply because it pays less than one of the best paid jobs. (I’m a senior civil servant married to an equity partner in a city firm. If he suggested my job somehow didn’t count because he earns many times what I do, he would get short shrift.)

Split of chores sounds reasonable. I couldn’t be doing with all the money stuff- just share your finances, especially as he’s better with money than you. It sounds like you’ve build resentment into the system by making it so complicated.

More important is the lack of support and affection. Is that only one way (he’s not supporting you but you support him) or do you feel that, because you have the more stressful job, he doesn’t need support? Do you think you could get back to a more
loving relationship or has that ship sailed?

Going back to the mat leave finances. I suspect the agreed split worked in OPs favour before the DCs and also not being married to protect finances. On this basis you can’t really expect lower paid DP to be generous when the position is reversed. Also presumably career paths are the same as they were when they met, odd to then be annoyed that the DP earns less than a corporate lawyer.
From the sounds of it the DP is doing a lot of the low level parenting grunt work. I agree if a bloke were posting the responses would be very different.

'Is there something else at play here around missing a kind of masculinity / protector / supporter figure'

That is what it would be for me. I'd find it deeply unattractive to have a man who wasn't a provider.