To be increasingly enraged by 14 yr old DS's social etiquette

[GreenLingo]

Or more to the point - lack of etiquette.
Oldest child, first to hit teen years, so I've got no experience.
I need some advice.
I place a lot of importance on good manners and good etiquette. I just think it's so important in life.
I have drilled it in to my kids since they were old enough to start understanding, as in around 2 years old.
One of the things I'm really big on is being polite to others.
DS, as a primary school age child, up until he left at the age of 11, was a ray of sunshine. My God, I think back and he was just this ball of bright, radiant, happy, smiling, laughing, energy, he was a very engaged and engaging child. He constantly looked happy. And after all my hard work of teaching him manners and social etiquette, he displayed them beautifully. He would greet every adult he knew, i.e. my adult friends, DH's friends, adult family members such as my brother, my mum, the parents of his school friends, teachers, etc., with direct eye contact, a huge smile, and a hello. They would talk to him, ask how his day has been, and he would cheerfully and confidently answer them and openly chat to them whilst still maintaining eye contact and exhibiting brilliant social manners. Adults that are close family friends, and family members, would extend their arms to hug him and he would happily hug them and smile at them. I would receive endless compliments from these adults about how polite he was, and how good his manners were, and they would all comment on how lovely he was. He was like this right up to age of late 11.
When he started secondary school aged 12, he suddenly shut down socially and suddenly started to find direct eye contact difficult in conversation with these same adults, so he started looking away from them when they spoke to him - the exact same adults he'd spent his whole childhood happily chatting to and engaging with and spending loads of time with, so I'm talking about adults he knows really well - and he stopped smiling at these same adults.
I explained to him it is really important to look at someone when they are speaking to you, otherwise it looks rude, or sends signals that you're not listening, but literally overnight he just suddenly couldn't do it anymore.
I put it down to shyness maybe developing with the onset of puberty. He was growing much taller, his voice was changing, his appearance was changing, new secondary school changes, his lifelong best friend friendship broke down which upset him, and I just thought maybe he's overwhelmed by all these changes and is feeling self conscious. The same adults started commenting on it to me, noticing how different he was behaving towards them when they saw him, and were asking me if he was ok. I used to apologise and explain that puberty had brought a sudden attack of shyness with it and they would all sagely nod and say "Ah I see, of course, yes. It'll pass."
Fast forward another 2 years and his social manners are an absolute disgrace. My God, he is so rude to people. He won't look at them. He will not meet their direct eye contact. He won't smile at them. He won't say a basic hello to them. If he is asked a direct question by them, he won't answer in more than 1 word and even then he'll say it to the ground, not to their face. I've told him, if you're finding it difficult to talk to people, just at least smile at them. A smile can say so much. But he will not smile at anyone.
It's killing me, socially. I'm dying of embarrassment. These are lovely, non intimidating adults who are either long standing family friends or family members who he has known and spent quality time with all his life.
Yesterday, I was on the village green talking to a mum friend. We have been to several parties at her house with DS. She has hosted him. Openly welcomed him at her house. He has given her a hug over the years upon arriving and leaving her parties with us. Yesterday, he walked past me and her on his way home from school, he wouldn't even look at her. She tried really hard to catch his eye to smile, and he just made sure he looked away. He would not look at or smile at her. I walked over to him whilst she was seeing to her dog, and asked him to please say hello to her. He would not. He wouldn't answer me and he wouldn't speak to her.
I could give umpteen examples of this. So many social situations where he is blanking my friends, blanking parents of his friends, people whose homes he has spent time in for years. Even to family members, my brother and mum, his uncle and grandmother, he has stopped hugging them and barely speaks a word to them.
I can see the confusion in people's faces, and I can see that they sometimes look a bit hurt, or a bit offended, by his blanking of them. No amount of me explaining to him about how he is coming across to others is having any impact. And believe me, I've talked to him about it over and over again.
Took DS to a medical appointment yesterday. A 45 minute consultation, where a professional was directly talking to him and trying to get information from him (he has a medical health condition). Not once would DS meet their eyeline. Not once did he give eye contact.
I took him to a GP last week because he was ill and needed antibiotics. Wouldn't look at the doctor at all when he was being spoken to.
2 old friends of mine visited, said hello and smiled to DS and he didn't smile back, he just gave a straight faced hello whilst looking down, then looked away. He walked off without saying a word to her, and my friend said to me "He doesn't want to see us does he" in a sarcastic and challenging tone of voice, and she looked visibly pissed off. This friend buys him birthday and Christmas presents every year, through his whole life and still to this day. I'd briefed him beforehand about manners and how he must ensure good manners and be polite to these close friends of mine, as I pre-empted what his behaviour would be like. Still, he still couldn't be polite.
I am really, seriously struggling with this.
I have talked to him over and over again about this. I understand a 14 year old boy isn't going to go around hugging adult women like he did when he was 6, and I understand that puberty brings self consciousness, but for God's sake, he can't say a basic hello and look at someone in the eye anymore?! It's insane.
What is going on with him?
If he'd been like this his whole life I'd have maybe some understanding, or at least acceptance. But how has he gone from such a bright, happy soul smiling and talking and looking at all the adults in his life, to this?

Yes, YABVU.
Your post is so intense and makes you sound SO disappointed in him.

He is just a teenager going through a very confusing time of life where his body, voice, feelings and everything else is changing whilst he is trying to find his place in the world.

Then YOU are piling pressure on him and criticising him for behaving as every other teenage boy does.
So even more rejection felt by him.

He's not a performing monkey.
He will be going through a stage where it is embarrassing to be seen anywhere near his own mother. A phase where you breathing is embarrassing for him let alone talking or wearing a particular item of clothing. He does not them want to perform for YOUR friends.

Leave the poor lad alone.

You described a normal teenager as far as I could see, but in a very smothering, intense and hyper analytical way.

There is no need to way overanalyse him like this. I don't think it sounds like he is rude (but your friend was, very rude indeed). He is heading through puberty now and is no longer your little primary school boy. I do remember what it felt like to realise that your young child has disappeared and been replaced by a gawky and awkward teenager, but you do have to just accept it and adapt.

Back off and stop trying to get him to perform for you. Stop looking so much back into the past - you're not going there. Accept the present and look to the future. This is a phase. It will pass and things will start to settle down again. My three children (girls) were all in similar phases between the ages of about 13 and 16. From 16 onwards they began becoming almost human again and by 18 were definitely back to being pretty agreeable.

Hmm, your post is very intense and you're only concerned with your own feelings and appearances, rather than your sons experience and well-being. I'd be worried about what's going on for him that's caused such a change, and trying to support him but you just seem to be thinking about how you look to others.

It all sounds pretty normal to me. When I was a teenager I hated being seen by school friends when I was out with my parents - I used to die of embarrassment. And have you seen Kevin the Teenager (Harry Enfield)? Exaggerated but true to life. And at his age he definitely won’t want to politely chat to his mums friends and relatives - they live in a completely different world and have nothing in common to talk about.
But they do come out of it eventually!
The only caveat would be if there’s some kind of issue at school e.g. bullying or struggling academically.

It's sounds like an awful lot of pressure being put on him. Instead of constantly focusing on how you feel, can you try and find out how he is feeling? He may be struggling with social anxiety, or difficulties at school, or difficulties dealing with the medical condition you mentioned, or just dealing with puberty and growing up.

All sounds completely normal to me...relax and let him be.

The word “enraged” seems disproportionate here.

You could be writing about my son. He’s 26 now and although not diagnosed he is 100% on the spectrum. You should consider this as a possibility.

Poor lad

@MidlandsGal1 nailed it!

You have been trying to raise a performing pony, to parade in front of your friends and family, with no thought as to how this has affected your son.
You come across as totally overbearing and clearly this is all about "your social standing" and absolutely nothing to do with your son.
You've pushed and pushed until he's now had enough, that combined with puberty, he's become overwhelmed. And I can't blame him!

Very very very normal OP.
This is what lots of teens do. It’s a hugely self conscious stage where many teens just wish’s the ground would swollen them up most of the time. Lucky you didn’t go through that yourself by the sounds of it but many people did.
Lack of confidence / crisis of confidence because he is changing from a child to an adult but doesn’t understand many of the rules of the adult world.
You need to reframe your thinking. All I hear is it’s so embarrassing for ME. I’ve taught him well, he’s showing ME up, MY friends think he doesn’t like them.
It’s not about you. You and your friends are adults who can understand a teenage boy might be very self conscious, say hello with no expectations on the return greeting.
it’s not rude. It’s an extremely akwward stage and he’s right in the middle of it.
Please lay off him. Don’t expect him to give eye contact or speak up. That will come in time. It will pass and by 18 there will be lots of improvements most likely.

I’d be interested to know what people try to talk to him about? I have a 14 year old, who has always been polite but a bit shy. However he is more or less the same now he’s 14 (in terms of social interactions with adults) as he was when he was 11. What I do find is that one set of grandparents (who have little interest in his interests and hobbies) get very little from him beyond the basic social manners and chitchat, whereas the other set of grandparents, and friends of mine can have very engaging conversations with him because they are interested in learning about his interests (sports mostly, but some quite unusual sports that require explaining of rules etc).

I do also (and always have) had a no-screens rule when people are visiting, which may help along with generally limited screen time anyway (maximum 1 hour on phone per day, and 1 hour on the Xbox 2-3 times per week). He doesn’t watch YouTube or tele (through his choice) and doesn’t have social media. Maybe he’s just young for his age, I don’t know, but most of his friends have similar rules at home and seem more or less the same in terms of social interactions with adults - he has 2 school friends (both almost a year older than him as they are 15 already) who are particularly chatty, but all of them are polite and able to make normal small talk. All of the boys (my own two and their friends) are sporty and do a lot of training being coached by adults, so perhaps that helps too, because they have to interact politely and engage with the sessions. Good luck going forwards - our 14 year old goes a bit bonkers (for him it’s silliness and intentional winding up of his younger brother) just before he has a massive growth spurt. We call it his “dickhead phase” (out of earshot of the kids obviously), and know it precedes getting taller, broader and settling down again for a few months 😆

Could it be social anxiety rather than rudeness? Just feels like an extreme change.
would also say it’s quite common. Teenagers can be ruthless and are going through so many changes as you said.
I would personally just leave it and see what happens in the future.

your friends comment probably didn’t help (if your son overheard.) I would also say getting someone a gift, doesn’t warrant a massive hello all the time

Wow, this is all about you.
Your standards
how things affect you
your friends
what people think of you

Your son has moved from primary to secondary school, he's lost his best friend from early childhood (which you mention in passing & move on - its bound to have a huge impact on him & rock his self confidence), hes changing physically and his OTT mother is demanding he hugs everyone (body autonomy - you really need to read up on it) and spends ages chatting to her mates.

Cut him some slack & maybe try to talk to him, to LISTEN to him, to support him.

When you talked to him about this, what did he say?

Yes it's hard when your child hits puberty - but it's harder for them! I got through puberty relatively easy compared to a lot of my peers but it was still a nightmare - feeling self conscious and awkward, brain not thinking rationally, spots, BO, hair growing in embarrassing places, boobs appearing overnight - but I came through it, and so will your son. Give the poor lad a break! (I've been through it 5 times with my kids - it does end)

Veteran teen mum here. They eventually come back to the manners instilled in them before hormones hit. The fact that it's so important to you is no doubt absolutely thrilling to him and a form of rebellion. Teen rebellion is an important and normal developmental leap
Consider it on par with toddler tantrums or newborn sleep regression, take the pressure off, don't talk about or apologise for him in his presence.

Do you really expect a 14 year old boy to be thrilled to meet and talk to YOUR friend, who is, I would guess, around your age? How would you feel at 14, being told/expected to make conversation with your dad’s friends? Who you will have nothing in common with at this age?
Just let him figure it out for himself. When he’s older he’ll be more comfortable I’m sure, and have a better frame of reference and experience to chat with adults.

This is all about you OP and how you feel , leave the poor lad alone it's perfectly normal

This is spades, they all go through the ignoring sullen stage, rude surley. Not interested in the olds [anyone over 20]. But they do come through it unless there is a medical reason.
I had 6 but we came out of the other side, it's hard at times but I didn't force them and just told them to mind manners if they were outwardly rude. Cue eye rolls, but that was to be espected when their brains were still mashed up and rewiring themselves into the finished item, Youngest is 22 and like his siblings is polite and courteous.

I think I’m going against the trend here but teenagerism isn’t an excuse for being rude. I don’t expect my 17yo dd or 14yo DS to get into full blown conversation with my friends, but I do expect them to be polite enough to do the basics, answer basic questions like how are you, how is school etc

Sorry OP but you sound like my Dad. He put so much pressure on me and my brother to have good manners, and do so much x, y, z, or we weren’t good enough (essentially). It has seriously f*cked my brother up, he’s pretty much had to be no contact with all of us, because my Dad is still alive, and still very much the same and has never got off his back. I’m more resilient than my brother, but it’s also really affected me. It’s also made me just not like him really, I feel sorry for him, so have him in my life still, but he sucked all connection and relationship out of our time as kids, so now as adults, there’s just barely anything there! I’d say back off him, put him first instead of your appearances!

His rudeness seems less unusual than your and your friends' insistence on elaborate socialness with them.

Are you bothered about how it's making YOU look or are you concerned that he's struggling with something?

Good lord. He's a teenage boy, leave him alone.

Maybe have a think about how he's going though one of the most complicated and awkward phases of his entire life, and less of the "It's killing me, socially".