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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be increasingly enraged by 14 yr old DS's social etiquette

322 replies

GreenLingo · 09/10/2025 13:57

Or more to the point - lack of etiquette.
Oldest child, first to hit teen years, so I've got no experience.
I need some advice.
I place a lot of importance on good manners and good etiquette. I just think it's so important in life.
I have drilled it in to my kids since they were old enough to start understanding, as in around 2 years old.
One of the things I'm really big on is being polite to others.
DS, as a primary school age child, up until he left at the age of 11, was a ray of sunshine. My God, I think back and he was just this ball of bright, radiant, happy, smiling, laughing, energy, he was a very engaged and engaging child. He constantly looked happy. And after all my hard work of teaching him manners and social etiquette, he displayed them beautifully. He would greet every adult he knew, i.e. my adult friends, DH's friends, adult family members such as my brother, my mum, the parents of his school friends, teachers, etc., with direct eye contact, a huge smile, and a hello. They would talk to him, ask how his day has been, and he would cheerfully and confidently answer them and openly chat to them whilst still maintaining eye contact and exhibiting brilliant social manners. Adults that are close family friends, and family members, would extend their arms to hug him and he would happily hug them and smile at them. I would receive endless compliments from these adults about how polite he was, and how good his manners were, and they would all comment on how lovely he was. He was like this right up to age of late 11.
When he started secondary school aged 12, he suddenly shut down socially and suddenly started to find direct eye contact difficult in conversation with these same adults, so he started looking away from them when they spoke to him - the exact same adults he'd spent his whole childhood happily chatting to and engaging with and spending loads of time with, so I'm talking about adults he knows really well - and he stopped smiling at these same adults.
I explained to him it is really important to look at someone when they are speaking to you, otherwise it looks rude, or sends signals that you're not listening, but literally overnight he just suddenly couldn't do it anymore.
I put it down to shyness maybe developing with the onset of puberty. He was growing much taller, his voice was changing, his appearance was changing, new secondary school changes, his lifelong best friend friendship broke down which upset him, and I just thought maybe he's overwhelmed by all these changes and is feeling self conscious. The same adults started commenting on it to me, noticing how different he was behaving towards them when they saw him, and were asking me if he was ok. I used to apologise and explain that puberty had brought a sudden attack of shyness with it and they would all sagely nod and say "Ah I see, of course, yes. It'll pass."
Fast forward another 2 years and his social manners are an absolute disgrace. My God, he is so rude to people. He won't look at them. He will not meet their direct eye contact. He won't smile at them. He won't say a basic hello to them. If he is asked a direct question by them, he won't answer in more than 1 word and even then he'll say it to the ground, not to their face. I've told him, if you're finding it difficult to talk to people, just at least smile at them. A smile can say so much. But he will not smile at anyone.
It's killing me, socially. I'm dying of embarrassment. These are lovely, non intimidating adults who are either long standing family friends or family members who he has known and spent quality time with all his life.
Yesterday, I was on the village green talking to a mum friend. We have been to several parties at her house with DS. She has hosted him. Openly welcomed him at her house. He has given her a hug over the years upon arriving and leaving her parties with us. Yesterday, he walked past me and her on his way home from school, he wouldn't even look at her. She tried really hard to catch his eye to smile, and he just made sure he looked away. He would not look at or smile at her. I walked over to him whilst she was seeing to her dog, and asked him to please say hello to her. He would not. He wouldn't answer me and he wouldn't speak to her.
I could give umpteen examples of this. So many social situations where he is blanking my friends, blanking parents of his friends, people whose homes he has spent time in for years. Even to family members, my brother and mum, his uncle and grandmother, he has stopped hugging them and barely speaks a word to them.
I can see the confusion in people's faces, and I can see that they sometimes look a bit hurt, or a bit offended, by his blanking of them. No amount of me explaining to him about how he is coming across to others is having any impact. And believe me, I've talked to him about it over and over again.
Took DS to a medical appointment yesterday. A 45 minute consultation, where a professional was directly talking to him and trying to get information from him (he has a medical health condition). Not once would DS meet their eyeline. Not once did he give eye contact.
I took him to a GP last week because he was ill and needed antibiotics. Wouldn't look at the doctor at all when he was being spoken to.
2 old friends of mine visited, said hello and smiled to DS and he didn't smile back, he just gave a straight faced hello whilst looking down, then looked away. He walked off without saying a word to her, and my friend said to me "He doesn't want to see us does he" in a sarcastic and challenging tone of voice, and she looked visibly pissed off. This friend buys him birthday and Christmas presents every year, through his whole life and still to this day. I'd briefed him beforehand about manners and how he must ensure good manners and be polite to these close friends of mine, as I pre-empted what his behaviour would be like. Still, he still couldn't be polite.
I am really, seriously struggling with this.
I have talked to him over and over again about this. I understand a 14 year old boy isn't going to go around hugging adult women like he did when he was 6, and I understand that puberty brings self consciousness, but for God's sake, he can't say a basic hello and look at someone in the eye anymore?! It's insane.
What is going on with him?
If he'd been like this his whole life I'd have maybe some understanding, or at least acceptance. But how has he gone from such a bright, happy soul smiling and talking and looking at all the adults in his life, to this?

OP posts:
3luckystars · 11/10/2025 11:05

GreenLingo · 09/10/2025 14:39

I AM sticking to the basics of hello, please and thank you!
That's all I'm aiming for!
My bar is very low!

I know you say he is your eldest but You have actually met a teenager before this have you?

This is normal. Nobody is reflecting this on you. He is finding his own way and you have to allow him.

Stop nagging him or you will have no relationship left. If your friends say ‘he has changed’ shrug and say ‘teenagers eh!’

Honestly, he will get nice again in a couple of years and all that early work will become apparent again. He is still in there and will get nice again!!

This is no reflection on you. He is separating from you. This is life. If he stayed lovely and cute, you would never want him to leave home at 19 or 20, but it’s nature.

I understand what you are going through and be advised, when you have elderly parents it’s a very similar feeling. You feel like everyone is thinking badly if you and this is all some bad reflection on you, but it is not. Anyone who has been there, understands. Anyone who has a problem with it, can get lost. You just have to stay calm and get through it without losing your mind. Keep a good open relationship with him, continue to be nice to him always, and believe in your heart that he will get nice again and one day it will happen.

Good luck x x x

Holliegee · 11/10/2025 11:09

I’m a mum of 3 sons generally speaking they go upstairs the first week of secondary school and come down a completely different person - secondary school is a massive change in friendships,teaching groups,social
status and there’s GIRLS (or boys) ….. it’s overdrive for a young lad and quite often they retreat into themselves, it’s not cool to be happy any more 😂 - your mum embarasses you and everyone gets on your nerves !! The only way round it, I found through experience was to forewarn them of upcoming events and ask (beg/plead/bribe/manipulate)them to try and be sociable.
This stage goes on for a while and is often coupled with unusual smells/massive hunger spells/ hoods up all the time and the need for excessive space.
What you will discover after this stage has passed or your onto an entirely levelled up next stage where they hate everyone and you actually silently hope they are on drugs because at least you know it will stop when they stop using them (it isn’t often drugs tbh it’s hormones) is that there has been many times when your teenager has displayed extreme decency outside the home that you knew nothing of - my wild middle son actually used to carry the lollipop ladies lollipop home for her so she could go to her sisters on the bus after her shift, he also welcomed a disabled younger girl to sit at the back of the bus with him and his friends after seeing her being bullied.
my elder son carried a puppy that had been attacked home for a distressed lady and would often salt the steps of the neighbours in the mornings when there was snow fall.

its not all bad, you just have to accept them as young people and not try to micro manage their behaviour/diet/hygiene or dress sense and NEVER interfere with friendships.

EmeraldShamrock000 · 11/10/2025 11:11

Pick your battles. He could be depressed or rebellious against the constant pressure of keeping up the facade.
Don't ruin your relationship because you are worried about other people's reactions to him.
It could get worse, if you battle against him.

3luckystars · 11/10/2025 11:12

I absolutely agree with @Holliegee above and people have come up to me and told me amazing lovely things about my son and I was absolutely stunned. Keep the faith!!!

ImSoPeopledOut · 11/10/2025 12:11

mustytrusty · 11/10/2025 06:36

Apologies I have not read all the comments so this may already have been said but it sounds to me like he’s found who he wants to be rather than who you want him to be. Forcing a child to hug people, for example, seems like a weird thing to me. Why would you make a child hug someone? That’s weird. He’s deciding now what he wants to accept rather than what’s been forced upon him. He’s chosen autonomy.

He’s chosen autonomy.

No, he has chosen rudeness.

I have had teenage sons and even when one was dealing with social anxiety he would still have the manners to respond to someone saying hello.

There is no excuse for bad manners and I wish adults would stop bending over backwards using these words to excuse it.

LindorDoubleChoc · 11/10/2025 12:21

Why is this so long? I just don't understand why so many opening posts on Mumsnet these days go on and on for paragraphs.

I didn't read it all. I know I'll get tuts and eye rolls for saying this, and I really don't mean to be rude. I just feel you (and all the other very verbose OPs) would get more input and more responses if you got to the point quicker.

mustytrusty · 11/10/2025 12:23

ImSoPeopledOut · 11/10/2025 12:11

He’s chosen autonomy.

No, he has chosen rudeness.

I have had teenage sons and even when one was dealing with social anxiety he would still have the manners to respond to someone saying hello.

There is no excuse for bad manners and I wish adults would stop bending over backwards using these words to excuse it.

Fair enough. I disagree. I have had teenage sons too and it always seemed to me that the most important thing was to allow them to be themselves and to find out what worked for them. One is autistic and wouldn’t tolerate what he sees as pointless social conformity being nice to people he neither knows or likes and the other is neurotypical and makes an effort with those he chooses to and where he feels it’s necessary. I am glad they have the ability to do what feels right to them. If they have ‘chosen rudeness’ but that keeps them physically and / or mentally safe then I am glad about that. It’s taken me 58 years to have learned to tell people to do one and to avoid the energy-sapping types of people rather than being ‘polite’. My 18 and 22 year old are able to do that now so I see that as a win for them.

WhatMummyMakesSheEats · 11/10/2025 13:44

Okay as a not-yet-diagnosed-and-late-to-discover autistic person (probably) this post hurt to read. There are obviously so many other traits that would need to be there for him to be autistic and we only have a snippet. But struggling with eye contact and social cues / expectations is a key area. What could potentially have happened is he masked so well when he was younger because he was doing what he was told. If someone is that highly masked it will exhaust them from within and perhaps he’s reaching burnout. You also seem a bit obsessed with the social ‘rules’ which could suggest you too have some traits! 😅

alternatively, he could well just be being a teenager. I don’t like that you say he owes a grown adult anything because they’ve bought him gifts he didn’t ask for. I buy my friends’ kids gifts because I love them and for my friends not because I expect anything back.

id probably be more concerned with checking in on his mental health rather than what people think.

Whatwouldnanado · 11/10/2025 14:21

I think op is having a hard time here. She and son sound lovely. We found kids do go through a sort of chrysalis phase say 13-19 before they emerge and take flight. They withdraw, challenge, find themselves if you like, often over stuff we can’t control school, mates, jobs etc. The more challenging they find it the more horrible they are and the more they need kindness and understanding. It’s hard but it does pass. But there are non negotiables in among all that and a big one is treating other people how they would like to be treated. So speaking when you’re spoken to. Basic hygiene. Getting the work done. Not wasting money. Not being a dick basically.

godmum56 · 11/10/2025 15:20

GreenLingo · 11/10/2025 06:09

"pressure you constantly put on him to do this, do that, say this, say that, look like this, look like that"
I don't tell him to do this, do that, say this, say that, look like this, look like that.
Do calm down.
I'm simply telling him to say hello and goodbye, and answer if he's asked how he is.

oh believe me he knows how you feel!

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 11/10/2025 15:29

GreenLingo · 11/10/2025 06:46

Oh my God,
WHERE have I said I force him to hug people?!?!?
I have NEVER done this, and I WOULD NEVER do this to him!!
I have said that when the adults in his life would extend their arms to give him a hug, he would happily hug them. I never bloody forced this!!!!! I actually used to tell him you only have to reciprocate a hug if you feel comfortable to do so and if you don't then that's ok! I was telling him this as a young child! My point is that these adults that he is now blanking are those same adults he used to happily hug! I've NEVER forced this!!!!

Edited

I do understand that you don't force him.

But I think you may be overlooking that the weight of expectation has been there for some time and that he is, now that his body and mind are developing and changing as he starts to navigate teenage years, finding it quite pressurising, even though you may not feel you are putting pressure on him, he feels it anyway because a certain behaviour has been an expectation from you in the past..
eg.

"I have drilled it in to my kids since they were old enough to start understanding, as in around 2 years old. One of the things I'm really big on is being polite to others."

Look at the way you express this... "I have drilled it into... and I'm really big on.."

Teenagers can be shy when seeing people who used to know them as little kids. Outside adults do sometimes make cringe comments which make teens clam up. If he's heard you apologising for him in front of him ( and I know what that is like) it's likely to make him hyperaware of himself and that does make teens shyer. If it keeps happening it makes them quite emotional and rebellious. If outside adults are trying to make the best of it when you apologise and saying Oh that's alright he's a bit shy... that is even more cringe.

So whilst you may have the absolute best of intentions, and its good parenting for children to have manners, there's a cumulative effect. He has had the whole thing "drilled into him" and already knows its one of the things you are "big on" without you saying a word now.
I really do think under the circumstances that you need to ease up on him. Let him be him and find out who that is.
He will grow up to have good manners I am sure of it... The current system isn't working for you. It comes across as if you feel your reputation is at stake. Stop apologising to others for him. He is more important than worrying what other people may think of his manners.

godmum56 · 11/10/2025 15:30

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 11/10/2025 15:29

I do understand that you don't force him.

But I think you may be overlooking that the weight of expectation has been there for some time and that he is, now that his body and mind are developing and changing as he starts to navigate teenage years, finding it quite pressurising, even though you may not feel you are putting pressure on him, he feels it anyway because a certain behaviour has been an expectation from you in the past..
eg.

"I have drilled it in to my kids since they were old enough to start understanding, as in around 2 years old. One of the things I'm really big on is being polite to others."

Look at the way you express this... "I have drilled it into... and I'm really big on.."

Teenagers can be shy when seeing people who used to know them as little kids. Outside adults do sometimes make cringe comments which make teens clam up. If he's heard you apologising for him in front of him ( and I know what that is like) it's likely to make him hyperaware of himself and that does make teens shyer. If it keeps happening it makes them quite emotional and rebellious. If outside adults are trying to make the best of it when you apologise and saying Oh that's alright he's a bit shy... that is even more cringe.

So whilst you may have the absolute best of intentions, and its good parenting for children to have manners, there's a cumulative effect. He has had the whole thing "drilled into him" and already knows its one of the things you are "big on" without you saying a word now.
I really do think under the circumstances that you need to ease up on him. Let him be him and find out who that is.
He will grow up to have good manners I am sure of it... The current system isn't working for you. It comes across as if you feel your reputation is at stake. Stop apologising to others for him. He is more important than worrying what other people may think of his manners.

Edited

this in spades

KlahanieLove · 11/10/2025 16:57

As soon as I saw that "he constantly looked happy" was your measure of success, I knew this was about you and not him. Perhaps he's sick of performing the "perfect family" role 24/7?!

GreenLingo · 11/10/2025 16:59

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 11/10/2025 15:29

I do understand that you don't force him.

But I think you may be overlooking that the weight of expectation has been there for some time and that he is, now that his body and mind are developing and changing as he starts to navigate teenage years, finding it quite pressurising, even though you may not feel you are putting pressure on him, he feels it anyway because a certain behaviour has been an expectation from you in the past..
eg.

"I have drilled it in to my kids since they were old enough to start understanding, as in around 2 years old. One of the things I'm really big on is being polite to others."

Look at the way you express this... "I have drilled it into... and I'm really big on.."

Teenagers can be shy when seeing people who used to know them as little kids. Outside adults do sometimes make cringe comments which make teens clam up. If he's heard you apologising for him in front of him ( and I know what that is like) it's likely to make him hyperaware of himself and that does make teens shyer. If it keeps happening it makes them quite emotional and rebellious. If outside adults are trying to make the best of it when you apologise and saying Oh that's alright he's a bit shy... that is even more cringe.

So whilst you may have the absolute best of intentions, and its good parenting for children to have manners, there's a cumulative effect. He has had the whole thing "drilled into him" and already knows its one of the things you are "big on" without you saying a word now.
I really do think under the circumstances that you need to ease up on him. Let him be him and find out who that is.
He will grow up to have good manners I am sure of it... The current system isn't working for you. It comes across as if you feel your reputation is at stake. Stop apologising to others for him. He is more important than worrying what other people may think of his manners.

Edited

"If he's heard you apologising for him in front of him ( and I know what that is like) it's likely to make him hyperaware of himself and that does make teens shyer. If it keeps happening it makes them quite emotional and rebellious. If outside adults are trying to make the best of it when you apologise and saying Oh that's alright he's a bit shy... that is even more cringe."
You are making a tremendous supposition here.
I don't apologise for him. Ever.
He has never heard me apologise for him to others, because I have never apologised for him to anyone, ever.

"Stop apologising to others for him."
I don't.

OP posts:
GreenLingo · 11/10/2025 17:01

KlahanieLove · 11/10/2025 16:57

As soon as I saw that "he constantly looked happy" was your measure of success, I knew this was about you and not him. Perhaps he's sick of performing the "perfect family" role 24/7?!

Sigh.
No.
It wasn't a measure of my success.
It was to describe the difference between how he was then compared to how he is now.

OP posts:
DeedsNotDiddums · 11/10/2025 17:06

LindorDoubleChoc · 11/10/2025 12:21

Why is this so long? I just don't understand why so many opening posts on Mumsnet these days go on and on for paragraphs.

I didn't read it all. I know I'll get tuts and eye rolls for saying this, and I really don't mean to be rude. I just feel you (and all the other very verbose OPs) would get more input and more responses if you got to the point quicker.

If you didn't mean to be rude, why then be rude?

GreenLingo · 11/10/2025 17:08

WhatMummyMakesSheEats · 11/10/2025 13:44

Okay as a not-yet-diagnosed-and-late-to-discover autistic person (probably) this post hurt to read. There are obviously so many other traits that would need to be there for him to be autistic and we only have a snippet. But struggling with eye contact and social cues / expectations is a key area. What could potentially have happened is he masked so well when he was younger because he was doing what he was told. If someone is that highly masked it will exhaust them from within and perhaps he’s reaching burnout. You also seem a bit obsessed with the social ‘rules’ which could suggest you too have some traits! 😅

alternatively, he could well just be being a teenager. I don’t like that you say he owes a grown adult anything because they’ve bought him gifts he didn’t ask for. I buy my friends’ kids gifts because I love them and for my friends not because I expect anything back.

id probably be more concerned with checking in on his mental health rather than what people think.

Did you read my update?
Does that still sound like possible ASD?

OP posts:
DeedsNotDiddums · 11/10/2025 17:08

GreenLingo · 11/10/2025 17:01

Sigh.
No.
It wasn't a measure of my success.
It was to describe the difference between how he was then compared to how he is now.

The world's gone mad OP. I don't think you're going to get any sense here.
Agree that you could check on his mental health.

GreenLingo · 11/10/2025 17:11

LindorDoubleChoc · 11/10/2025 12:21

Why is this so long? I just don't understand why so many opening posts on Mumsnet these days go on and on for paragraphs.

I didn't read it all. I know I'll get tuts and eye rolls for saying this, and I really don't mean to be rude. I just feel you (and all the other very verbose OPs) would get more input and more responses if you got to the point quicker.

Don't worry. I'm getting plenty of replies.
287 so far.

OP posts:
Bkuewstiting · 11/10/2025 17:13

The weight of expectation on him must be terrible. It’s normal. He’s a teen. He will come out the other side.

he night also be autistic and getting to the point where he is unable to mask.

I hate eye contact and forcing it would make me want to claw my skin off i cant exolain it. Diagnosed in my 40s female

Hes also likely to be becoming his own person with his own standards.

Chill. Relax.

verycloakanddaggers · 11/10/2025 17:19

If he'd been like this his whole life I'd have maybe some understanding, or at least acceptance. But how has he gone from such a bright, happy soul smiling and talking and looking at all the adults in his life, to this?

This seems an unusual thought process. Children do change, sometimes that needs attention, sometimes it's a phase, sometimes it's their personality developing.

You also mention 'happy' a lot which is potentially unhelpful for him.

Have you checked with school?

I think the correct approach would be to consider if there could be an underlying cause, whilst also being accepting that you can't force him to do these things. Also read up on why eye contact is difficult for many people, try to develop some understanding.

FreyjaOfTheNorth · 11/10/2025 17:22

Were you never a teenager, OP? I was worse than this. My parents would have been thrilled if the biggest issue I caused was not making eye contact when speaking and not being cheerful enough.

YerArseInParsley · 11/10/2025 17:32

GreenLingo · 11/10/2025 06:04

@KitTea3
When you say this may only be applicable to those that have ND conditions, could you elaborate on what you mean by this? Why would ND mean someone struggles with eye contact? What do you mean by saying it feels like your brain is on fire if you look someone in the eye?
Sorry, I don't mean to pry too much, but I'm really keen to understand this better, in case there is something else going on with DS.

'in case there is something else going on with DS'.

There is!

SunnySideDeepDown · 11/10/2025 17:36

When reading your first post, what screamed out to me is how much emphasis you place on extrovert skills.

My young children are introverted, they barely say hello to family, let alone my friends. They aren’t rude, they just take a while to warm up in peoples company otherwise they revert to shyness. As did me and their dad as kids; I hated being in the presence of adults. Didn’t know what to say or how to act. I didn’t want to be rude but also just didn’t know how to be in front of adults.

Its totally ok not the be the fun loving, huggy, smiley child.

My requirements would be to acknowledge a “hi” with a “hi”. Then I’d be fine for a teenager to go do their own thing.

I think you need to let him be him, flaws and all. One day he’ll mature and probably cringe at how he was but that’s life! There’s a reason everyone is saying to chill out.

indoorplantqueen · 11/10/2025 17:39

He sounds like a fairly typical teen who has hit the socially awkward stage that many go through. It could be the change of voice, acne or hormones. Most parents who have had teens know that this is most likely just a phase. Roll your eyes in a ‘typical teenager’ sort way and don’t make a big deal of it.