To be increasingly enraged by 14 yr old DS's social etiquette

[GreenLingo]

Or more to the point - lack of etiquette.
Oldest child, first to hit teen years, so I've got no experience.
I need some advice.
I place a lot of importance on good manners and good etiquette. I just think it's so important in life.
I have drilled it in to my kids since they were old enough to start understanding, as in around 2 years old.
One of the things I'm really big on is being polite to others.
DS, as a primary school age child, up until he left at the age of 11, was a ray of sunshine. My God, I think back and he was just this ball of bright, radiant, happy, smiling, laughing, energy, he was a very engaged and engaging child. He constantly looked happy. And after all my hard work of teaching him manners and social etiquette, he displayed them beautifully. He would greet every adult he knew, i.e. my adult friends, DH's friends, adult family members such as my brother, my mum, the parents of his school friends, teachers, etc., with direct eye contact, a huge smile, and a hello. They would talk to him, ask how his day has been, and he would cheerfully and confidently answer them and openly chat to them whilst still maintaining eye contact and exhibiting brilliant social manners. Adults that are close family friends, and family members, would extend their arms to hug him and he would happily hug them and smile at them. I would receive endless compliments from these adults about how polite he was, and how good his manners were, and they would all comment on how lovely he was. He was like this right up to age of late 11.
When he started secondary school aged 12, he suddenly shut down socially and suddenly started to find direct eye contact difficult in conversation with these same adults, so he started looking away from them when they spoke to him - the exact same adults he'd spent his whole childhood happily chatting to and engaging with and spending loads of time with, so I'm talking about adults he knows really well - and he stopped smiling at these same adults.
I explained to him it is really important to look at someone when they are speaking to you, otherwise it looks rude, or sends signals that you're not listening, but literally overnight he just suddenly couldn't do it anymore.
I put it down to shyness maybe developing with the onset of puberty. He was growing much taller, his voice was changing, his appearance was changing, new secondary school changes, his lifelong best friend friendship broke down which upset him, and I just thought maybe he's overwhelmed by all these changes and is feeling self conscious. The same adults started commenting on it to me, noticing how different he was behaving towards them when they saw him, and were asking me if he was ok. I used to apologise and explain that puberty had brought a sudden attack of shyness with it and they would all sagely nod and say "Ah I see, of course, yes. It'll pass."
Fast forward another 2 years and his social manners are an absolute disgrace. My God, he is so rude to people. He won't look at them. He will not meet their direct eye contact. He won't smile at them. He won't say a basic hello to them. If he is asked a direct question by them, he won't answer in more than 1 word and even then he'll say it to the ground, not to their face. I've told him, if you're finding it difficult to talk to people, just at least smile at them. A smile can say so much. But he will not smile at anyone.
It's killing me, socially. I'm dying of embarrassment. These are lovely, non intimidating adults who are either long standing family friends or family members who he has known and spent quality time with all his life.
Yesterday, I was on the village green talking to a mum friend. We have been to several parties at her house with DS. She has hosted him. Openly welcomed him at her house. He has given her a hug over the years upon arriving and leaving her parties with us. Yesterday, he walked past me and her on his way home from school, he wouldn't even look at her. She tried really hard to catch his eye to smile, and he just made sure he looked away. He would not look at or smile at her. I walked over to him whilst she was seeing to her dog, and asked him to please say hello to her. He would not. He wouldn't answer me and he wouldn't speak to her.
I could give umpteen examples of this. So many social situations where he is blanking my friends, blanking parents of his friends, people whose homes he has spent time in for years. Even to family members, my brother and mum, his uncle and grandmother, he has stopped hugging them and barely speaks a word to them.
I can see the confusion in people's faces, and I can see that they sometimes look a bit hurt, or a bit offended, by his blanking of them. No amount of me explaining to him about how he is coming across to others is having any impact. And believe me, I've talked to him about it over and over again.
Took DS to a medical appointment yesterday. A 45 minute consultation, where a professional was directly talking to him and trying to get information from him (he has a medical health condition). Not once would DS meet their eyeline. Not once did he give eye contact.
I took him to a GP last week because he was ill and needed antibiotics. Wouldn't look at the doctor at all when he was being spoken to.
2 old friends of mine visited, said hello and smiled to DS and he didn't smile back, he just gave a straight faced hello whilst looking down, then looked away. He walked off without saying a word to her, and my friend said to me "He doesn't want to see us does he" in a sarcastic and challenging tone of voice, and she looked visibly pissed off. This friend buys him birthday and Christmas presents every year, through his whole life and still to this day. I'd briefed him beforehand about manners and how he must ensure good manners and be polite to these close friends of mine, as I pre-empted what his behaviour would be like. Still, he still couldn't be polite.
I am really, seriously struggling with this.
I have talked to him over and over again about this. I understand a 14 year old boy isn't going to go around hugging adult women like he did when he was 6, and I understand that puberty brings self consciousness, but for God's sake, he can't say a basic hello and look at someone in the eye anymore?! It's insane.
What is going on with him?
If he'd been like this his whole life I'd have maybe some understanding, or at least acceptance. But how has he gone from such a bright, happy soul smiling and talking and looking at all the adults in his life, to this?

he suddenly shut down socially and suddenly started to find direct eye contact difficult

I would be more concerned than embarrassed if this was my kid. Are you sure nothing has happened?

You are overreacting massively. I feel sorry for your ds. It's a transitional phase. Give him some space and back off. Tbh you have an issue here, not him

Can't you remember being a teen, OP?

I remember being so shy to speak up, when I did I spoke in a whisper as I feared an eavesdropper would ridicule or criticise me if I got something wrong. Also I remember being told to "cheer up" etc. I had a resting grumpy face. At around 16 or 17 the cloud started to lift and I started to regain my confidence.

Don't put so much pressure on him, have his back, let him know you love him unconditionally, pick your battles and model polite and respectful behaviour towards and around him, come to him, find out what makes him tick now and connect with him over stuff he likes, and he'll come through this phase.

As many others have said how about you concentrate on your son and how he’s feeling, how he’s coping with all the shit that teenagers go through. Why do you care more about what every other Tom, Dick and Harriet thinks than you do about your son

Its not his job to make you look good

If he is lovely the rest of the time, why not ask how you can help make things easier for him?

Because the OP has previously used him like a performing animal to show off to everyone and their granny, but can no longer do that.

You mention a lost friendship, lots of adults being able to hug him at will..I'd be exploring whether he is very upset about his friend or whether something has happened to him to make him withdraw. If it's neither then it's explained by pubity and big life changes too

Give the kid a break. Most kids go through an arsehole stage. I know both of mine did. Both of my DS’s have beautiful manners, they’re both courteous and charming. They weren’t when they were about 14 to 17 though. They were knobs! Stop worrying about how you think it makes you look. It shouldn’t matter what other people think. I banned my prick of a FIL from my house because he was so horrible to my eldest when he was going through puberty (and dealing with just being diagnosed with ADHD). This too shall pass.

You could draw his attention to some social 'tricks' he might not know about yet - looking at foreheads or above someone's head rather than at their eyes to give the illusion of eye contact.

There's conversational twists if he doesn't want to talk about himself - he can change the subject/ ask them a question etc.

In the right circumstances a shared job can create its own conversation eg. serving canapes, even amongst people of very different ages (so I wouldn't worry that the equivalent of awkward brief hellos would continue if he's with people for longer)

He can offer a hand to shake to avoid unwanted hugs - his body space is his own.

Is he worried about intrusive questions? You can think through strategies for deflecting them.

I agree.

I also think it wouldn't hurt to talk sympathetically with him - check if everything's alright. When you do training about safeguarding, sudden changes in mood and behaviour are red flags for loads of things. You must really try to not have any suggestion of disappointment or exasperation in your voice - if necessary, put the seed out there that you are worried and available to talk, then back off and let him come to you.

If it's nothing sinister he'll learn the hard way how treating people like that works out. You need to let him fall.

I agree it's a phase. I also agree a perky 'say hello to so and so!' makes it worse. However I don't think its OK to just accept it, most teenagers come back around naturally but some don't and there is a very fine line between shy, sullen and rude. There are some awful adults out there who probably were validated in that behaviour as a teen. I don't have the answers because it's tricky but I think people who are like this need to understand how they make other people feel. They are so caught up in what everyone thinks of them, yet they are the ones making those around them stressed and uncomfortable and they don't seem to care. I think (subtly) putting the spotlight on the consequences of their behaviour for other people would help, rather than focusing on the behaviour itself.

I don't know, it does sound extreme even by pubescent teen standards. Ds (nearly 15) has a few grumps or off days now and then, but nothing like this. And he always greets his grandparents, aunts, cousins etc with a massive hug, some kind words and a smile. Maybe I'm just lucky and dd will be a horror show, though.

From the thread title I was expecting you to say that he was actually saying obnoxious things to people. He's not though - so whether he's being rude to people is subjective. He's withdrawn, he's quiet, he's uncomfortable in social situations. From his point of view, he's being minimalist rather than rude. I'd drop the attitude that he's doing wrong. I think you'll find people will get used to him and indulge this phase. It will only be a problem if he doesn't come out of it at 18+.

I remember my brother going through the same phase, OP. Nothing but a grunt as a response for the teenage years!

It's not about you.
He's the one who's socially anxious.

I stopped about half way through, I think I got the gist of your big rant.

So, in summary your son is clearly going through a difficult phase of his life, and all you do about it is complain about his "manners". Maybe you should stop berating him, and start CARING about him.

@GreenLingo give your son space. Reading your OP and I feel cornered and oppressed. You are expecting him to perform to your standards. I understand the importance of being polite etc but I don’t see any curiosity into why your son’s temperament has changed so dramatically.

why does he have to give eye contact?
why does he have to hug people?
why does he have to say hello or engage?

Give him space. I would personally remove all expectations and focus on building my relationship with my son to start gauging what’s going on.

If I’d have behaved like that, my mother would have wiped the floor with me (and I have Asperger’s, so it didn’t come naturally!). Life wouldn’t have been worth living if I’d behaved like that. Shyness is fine, rudeness is not.
He could muster a smile and a hello. He used to manage it fine, so he can still do it with a bit of work.

Social interactions need to be worked on and you sometimes have to fake it til you make it. It just requires effort.

I absolutely despise rudeness in anyone.

He sounds like a normal teenager.

you sound like very hard work.

leave him be!!!

I think that says more about your mother than anything else tbh.

My mum is amazing. The most supportive and kind person, who has my back to this day and does anything she can to help me. But she expected good behaviour and politeness to people.
Not exactly bad traits really eh?

Cut the poor lad some slack. He's going through puberty, hormones racing around his body, he feels self conscious, embarrassed, doesnt want to engage.
Leave him alone, he'll come through the other side

My middle child has a resting bitch face that he has cultivated until it is located somewhere between ‘I want to fucking stab you’ and ‘my contempt for you burns hotter than hell’. He whispers hello while making no facial movements and claims he welcomed people warmly.

Actually it means he doesn’t like them and I know this as despite sometimes being a surly twat he is gorgeous to his elderly grandparents and I had an email recently detailing how amazing he is and what a support he is to the woman running the club he attends. I also caught him being very sweet with a young girl with significant SEND needs. He just isn’t much of a random people person and has bugger all interest in my mates - with a few exceptions. He is embracing his dark persona but I reckon it will shift at some point. I think it’s a reaction to my chatty good cheer! In short - don’t sweat it.

He isnt a prize exotic bird for you to wheel out and your friends to ooh and ahh at

My mum was the same as you, in my late teens i was suicidally depressed and once i didnt say hello to an aunt or something as itvwas all i could do to get from one day to the next, did my mum think to enquire as why i might be suddenly not social? Was there something deeper going on?

She did not. She didnt bother. She instead gave me chapter and verse on how ashamsd i should be and how id embarassed her.

I hold a grudge on this still.

Were you never an acutely self conscious awkward teenager? I was. I overheard my mother making critical comments about me and that certainly didn't raise my self esteem any.

You can't parent a 14 year old like a 4 year old, with constant guidance and correction. Your every negative comment might either be triggering lower self worth or a gritty determination not to acceed to your requests.

If it were me, I'd roll my eyes at these other adults and say "Teenagers, eh! What can you do?" and laugh knowingly (not within his hearing though, of course).

Lighten up!