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Original poster

To be increasingly enraged by 14 yr old DS's social etiquette

322 replies

GreenLingo · 09/10/2025 13:57

Or more to the point - lack of etiquette.
Oldest child, first to hit teen years, so I've got no experience.
I need some advice.
I place a lot of importance on good manners and good etiquette. I just think it's so important in life.
I have drilled it in to my kids since they were old enough to start understanding, as in around 2 years old.
One of the things I'm really big on is being polite to others.
DS, as a primary school age child, up until he left at the age of 11, was a ray of sunshine. My God, I think back and he was just this ball of bright, radiant, happy, smiling, laughing, energy, he was a very engaged and engaging child. He constantly looked happy. And after all my hard work of teaching him manners and social etiquette, he displayed them beautifully. He would greet every adult he knew, i.e. my adult friends, DH's friends, adult family members such as my brother, my mum, the parents of his school friends, teachers, etc., with direct eye contact, a huge smile, and a hello. They would talk to him, ask how his day has been, and he would cheerfully and confidently answer them and openly chat to them whilst still maintaining eye contact and exhibiting brilliant social manners. Adults that are close family friends, and family members, would extend their arms to hug him and he would happily hug them and smile at them. I would receive endless compliments from these adults about how polite he was, and how good his manners were, and they would all comment on how lovely he was. He was like this right up to age of late 11.
When he started secondary school aged 12, he suddenly shut down socially and suddenly started to find direct eye contact difficult in conversation with these same adults, so he started looking away from them when they spoke to him - the exact same adults he'd spent his whole childhood happily chatting to and engaging with and spending loads of time with, so I'm talking about adults he knows really well - and he stopped smiling at these same adults.
I explained to him it is really important to look at someone when they are speaking to you, otherwise it looks rude, or sends signals that you're not listening, but literally overnight he just suddenly couldn't do it anymore.
I put it down to shyness maybe developing with the onset of puberty. He was growing much taller, his voice was changing, his appearance was changing, new secondary school changes, his lifelong best friend friendship broke down which upset him, and I just thought maybe he's overwhelmed by all these changes and is feeling self conscious. The same adults started commenting on it to me, noticing how different he was behaving towards them when they saw him, and were asking me if he was ok. I used to apologise and explain that puberty had brought a sudden attack of shyness with it and they would all sagely nod and say "Ah I see, of course, yes. It'll pass."
Fast forward another 2 years and his social manners are an absolute disgrace. My God, he is so rude to people. He won't look at them. He will not meet their direct eye contact. He won't smile at them. He won't say a basic hello to them. If he is asked a direct question by them, he won't answer in more than 1 word and even then he'll say it to the ground, not to their face. I've told him, if you're finding it difficult to talk to people, just at least smile at them. A smile can say so much. But he will not smile at anyone.
It's killing me, socially. I'm dying of embarrassment. These are lovely, non intimidating adults who are either long standing family friends or family members who he has known and spent quality time with all his life.
Yesterday, I was on the village green talking to a mum friend. We have been to several parties at her house with DS. She has hosted him. Openly welcomed him at her house. He has given her a hug over the years upon arriving and leaving her parties with us. Yesterday, he walked past me and her on his way home from school, he wouldn't even look at her. She tried really hard to catch his eye to smile, and he just made sure he looked away. He would not look at or smile at her. I walked over to him whilst she was seeing to her dog, and asked him to please say hello to her. He would not. He wouldn't answer me and he wouldn't speak to her.
I could give umpteen examples of this. So many social situations where he is blanking my friends, blanking parents of his friends, people whose homes he has spent time in for years. Even to family members, my brother and mum, his uncle and grandmother, he has stopped hugging them and barely speaks a word to them.
I can see the confusion in people's faces, and I can see that they sometimes look a bit hurt, or a bit offended, by his blanking of them. No amount of me explaining to him about how he is coming across to others is having any impact. And believe me, I've talked to him about it over and over again.
Took DS to a medical appointment yesterday. A 45 minute consultation, where a professional was directly talking to him and trying to get information from him (he has a medical health condition). Not once would DS meet their eyeline. Not once did he give eye contact.
I took him to a GP last week because he was ill and needed antibiotics. Wouldn't look at the doctor at all when he was being spoken to.
2 old friends of mine visited, said hello and smiled to DS and he didn't smile back, he just gave a straight faced hello whilst looking down, then looked away. He walked off without saying a word to her, and my friend said to me "He doesn't want to see us does he" in a sarcastic and challenging tone of voice, and she looked visibly pissed off. This friend buys him birthday and Christmas presents every year, through his whole life and still to this day. I'd briefed him beforehand about manners and how he must ensure good manners and be polite to these close friends of mine, as I pre-empted what his behaviour would be like. Still, he still couldn't be polite.
I am really, seriously struggling with this.
I have talked to him over and over again about this. I understand a 14 year old boy isn't going to go around hugging adult women like he did when he was 6, and I understand that puberty brings self consciousness, but for God's sake, he can't say a basic hello and look at someone in the eye anymore?! It's insane.
What is going on with him?
If he'd been like this his whole life I'd have maybe some understanding, or at least acceptance. But how has he gone from such a bright, happy soul smiling and talking and looking at all the adults in his life, to this?

OP posts:
Karatema · 09/10/2025 14:54

I voted not being unreasonable, however, mine was like this from 13 to 16 although his Nan was the exception and, whenever he saw her it was all smiles and politeness.
He’s now, very much, an adult and has thanked me for sticking with him whilst he was an “a-hole” his word.
My other DC went through a very short phase of this but was being bullied and once that was sorted out was back to being polite and smiley.

Isometimeswonder · 09/10/2025 14:55

Stop making him hug people.
No-one should have to be touched by anyone else. I HATED having to hug an uncle, and no, there was nothing sinister, I just didn't like it.

Charlotte120221 · 09/10/2025 14:55

the more you express your shock and exasperation the harder it is for him.

He's a teenage boy - he's not the carefree 6 year old any more. Give him space and time and he'll be ok.

Keep going on at him about his manners and keep feeling embarrassed of him and he might not.

Greggsit · 09/10/2025 14:55

Sorry, I'm with everyone else. It sounds like he's a normal teenage boy. It won't last forever. But be warned, it might get worse before it does. The silence is better than the shouting!

Araminta1003 · 09/10/2025 14:56

I mean you could try bribery? DS if you are polite to my friends and make conversation (spell it out clearly what you expect) then you will get x, y and z? At least you would then know whether he can or cannot control it. You need to figure out whether it is social anxiety and an actual problem vs just being a teen.

Sc00byDont · 09/10/2025 14:57

@GreenLingo your post 😬 - it’s like you’ve never heard of puberty and never met a teenager before. And I don’t believe that all the adults around you are upset or confused by his behaviour.

let him be.

If you let him set his boundaries, you will find he becomes more open to talking to adults again.

Laiste · 09/10/2025 14:57

Oh lord i'm 100 years past this stage but i can feel it again.

My mother would say 'your Auntie this that or the other buys you LOVELY THINGs the least you can do is x y z. You like the things !! Be GRATEFUL!!!!'.

Yes, the things were nice. But The reality was that i would happily swap to her buying me nothing at all ever again and me NOT having to do the grateful dance.

I grew out of it obvs and by my 20s could charm the birds out of the trees if you needed me to.

Leave him alone OP.

Outside9 · 09/10/2025 14:58

YABU for the length of the post.

Otherwise understandable frustration.

outerspacepotato · 09/10/2025 15:01

You parade your son like a trained pet and my bet is he's sick of it.

He's 14. He doesn't want to be put on display for your friends to give you compliments. He doesn't want to be used so you can be validated on what a great mom you are. You've had him hugging others on command and maybe he's found out he has bodily autonomy. You even have him performing for your friends at the doctor's office. It's not a social occasion, sheesh. If he needs antibiotics, he's feeling like shit.

Whatever. You're being extremely controlling and he's resisting your control of his behaviour. I'd let him go to the doctor's office without you. He can't communicate freely in front of you.

Give him space.

StarlightRobot · 09/10/2025 15:03

I feel for OP and would struggle with this too. The examples seem extreme enough that I would worry about an underlying problem. If he won’t talk to you, is there someone more relatable that he could spend some time with and work through a possible underlying issue? Is his dad around and, if so, do they have a good relationship?

My brother was a horrible and surly teenager. My parents dismissed it as ordinary teen behaviour at the time. In hindsight, he was struggling with some complex problems and needed support. He would never had admitted this at the time but maybe if we had looked more closely we would have been able to find a way through. He has had mental and emotional problems throughout adulthood - serious assaults on him physically after he has associated with bad people and then drug addiction to cope. He blames my parents even though his blame isn’t logical. I wish we could go back in time and help that teenage boy.

I realise my personal example is very extreme but I would still take a closer look at what is going on. In hindsight, the signs were there with my brother.

thedoofus · 09/10/2025 15:03

You are right that life is easier for people who are friendly and have good manners. But I'm not sure that's the hill I'd die on with my 14 year old. I was a pretty awkward and monosyllabic teenager. I recognised in my late teens/early twenties that the person that was most harming was me, and I made a real effort to develop the cheery face I present to the world (most of the time) now.
It struck me reading your posts that there's a lot about how difficult/embarrassing/unaligned with your values this is for you. I get that, but it's probably not helpful for either of you. You don't want to add feeling like a disappointment to you to the list of issues your son is grappling with as a teenage boy. Ultimately, he's his own person - one of the hard things about parenting teenagers is recognising that. Easy to say and hard to do. You've made clear what your feelings/expectations/values are; try not to feel like his behaviour is a verdict on your parenting ability.

waterrat · 09/10/2025 15:04

I hear you Op my son is similar

But I have to be honest the INTENSITY of YOUR PERSONAL level of embarassment is too much!! It is pouring off the page!!

I have had very very similar cringy moments with my 13 year old - but I think honestnly you have to back off a bit. They are in a really tricky bit of puberty.

Carodebalo · 09/10/2025 15:07

Three options if you ask me. 1. Something is going on neurologically 2. There are social issues like bullying 3. He is a normal, ‘regular’ teenager. I’m putting my money on nr 3. Teenage brains get ‘deconstructed’ and then built up again. (Google it, it’s a thing!) Some teens seem more affected by this than others. I have seen the children of friends becoming really socially awkward, and they have all come out of it like a new and improved version of themselves. My own teens are going through it as well, perhaps not as heavily affected as your son, but still. Trust the process OP, he will be ‘alright’ again, but it may take some time. (This does not mean that you can’t remind him to say hello, please and thank you. Other than that, I’d let it all go for now. And just in case, keep options 1 and 2 in the back of your mind. But I think it’s 3. Best of luck OP!)

allmymonkeys · 09/10/2025 15:09

You say - twice, what's more - "I have talked to him over and over again about this."

Stop! Please! Stop talking to him over and over again about it! The poor boy must be mortified.

The abruptness of the change could be hormonal or, with the major life milestone of moving from primary to secondary school it could be peer-group related or it could even be something more serious such as bullying or abuse, not forgetting that this can come from adults as well as other students.

Does he talk to you or his father when he's at home and it's peaceful?

MrsFaustus · 09/10/2025 15:10

Mine was a bit like that 15 to 18.he just grunted at people (in fact an acquaintance asked if he had Special Needs🫢).he went to university, flourished socially and reappeared in the holidays far more like his younger self. He’s now married with children and greets my very old friends with a hug and enormous charm, so don’t despair!

Cucy · 09/10/2025 15:12

No one needs to give eye contact and if he feels pressure to do this, then any interaction is going to be very hard for him.

My DD was similar.
She has a resting bitch face and is very intimidating but she is lovely, shy and autistic. I have never met anyone so kind and empathetic with not one bitchy bone in her body.

I explained to her that teens can be really intimidating and when we don’t say hello or smile, other people can think that we’re not nice people or you don’t like them.
I said if someone came up to you the way you come up to them, you may feel they weren’t very friendly.
I said she doesn’t need to make conversation but a smile and a hi and then walk off.
It definitely seemed to help.

Most people with teens will understand.
I always say hi to teens but I never expect anything back and rarely ask them direct questions unless I can tell they’re comfortable answering.

TheCaribbeanIsCallingMe · 09/10/2025 15:13

I've raised two kids into adulthood and did not experience this. Sorry, not helpful!

Lucy2586 · 09/10/2025 15:14

GreenLingo · 09/10/2025 13:57

Or more to the point - lack of etiquette.
Oldest child, first to hit teen years, so I've got no experience.
I need some advice.
I place a lot of importance on good manners and good etiquette. I just think it's so important in life.
I have drilled it in to my kids since they were old enough to start understanding, as in around 2 years old.
One of the things I'm really big on is being polite to others.
DS, as a primary school age child, up until he left at the age of 11, was a ray of sunshine. My God, I think back and he was just this ball of bright, radiant, happy, smiling, laughing, energy, he was a very engaged and engaging child. He constantly looked happy. And after all my hard work of teaching him manners and social etiquette, he displayed them beautifully. He would greet every adult he knew, i.e. my adult friends, DH's friends, adult family members such as my brother, my mum, the parents of his school friends, teachers, etc., with direct eye contact, a huge smile, and a hello. They would talk to him, ask how his day has been, and he would cheerfully and confidently answer them and openly chat to them whilst still maintaining eye contact and exhibiting brilliant social manners. Adults that are close family friends, and family members, would extend their arms to hug him and he would happily hug them and smile at them. I would receive endless compliments from these adults about how polite he was, and how good his manners were, and they would all comment on how lovely he was. He was like this right up to age of late 11.
When he started secondary school aged 12, he suddenly shut down socially and suddenly started to find direct eye contact difficult in conversation with these same adults, so he started looking away from them when they spoke to him - the exact same adults he'd spent his whole childhood happily chatting to and engaging with and spending loads of time with, so I'm talking about adults he knows really well - and he stopped smiling at these same adults.
I explained to him it is really important to look at someone when they are speaking to you, otherwise it looks rude, or sends signals that you're not listening, but literally overnight he just suddenly couldn't do it anymore.
I put it down to shyness maybe developing with the onset of puberty. He was growing much taller, his voice was changing, his appearance was changing, new secondary school changes, his lifelong best friend friendship broke down which upset him, and I just thought maybe he's overwhelmed by all these changes and is feeling self conscious. The same adults started commenting on it to me, noticing how different he was behaving towards them when they saw him, and were asking me if he was ok. I used to apologise and explain that puberty had brought a sudden attack of shyness with it and they would all sagely nod and say "Ah I see, of course, yes. It'll pass."
Fast forward another 2 years and his social manners are an absolute disgrace. My God, he is so rude to people. He won't look at them. He will not meet their direct eye contact. He won't smile at them. He won't say a basic hello to them. If he is asked a direct question by them, he won't answer in more than 1 word and even then he'll say it to the ground, not to their face. I've told him, if you're finding it difficult to talk to people, just at least smile at them. A smile can say so much. But he will not smile at anyone.
It's killing me, socially. I'm dying of embarrassment. These are lovely, non intimidating adults who are either long standing family friends or family members who he has known and spent quality time with all his life.
Yesterday, I was on the village green talking to a mum friend. We have been to several parties at her house with DS. She has hosted him. Openly welcomed him at her house. He has given her a hug over the years upon arriving and leaving her parties with us. Yesterday, he walked past me and her on his way home from school, he wouldn't even look at her. She tried really hard to catch his eye to smile, and he just made sure he looked away. He would not look at or smile at her. I walked over to him whilst she was seeing to her dog, and asked him to please say hello to her. He would not. He wouldn't answer me and he wouldn't speak to her.
I could give umpteen examples of this. So many social situations where he is blanking my friends, blanking parents of his friends, people whose homes he has spent time in for years. Even to family members, my brother and mum, his uncle and grandmother, he has stopped hugging them and barely speaks a word to them.
I can see the confusion in people's faces, and I can see that they sometimes look a bit hurt, or a bit offended, by his blanking of them. No amount of me explaining to him about how he is coming across to others is having any impact. And believe me, I've talked to him about it over and over again.
Took DS to a medical appointment yesterday. A 45 minute consultation, where a professional was directly talking to him and trying to get information from him (he has a medical health condition). Not once would DS meet their eyeline. Not once did he give eye contact.
I took him to a GP last week because he was ill and needed antibiotics. Wouldn't look at the doctor at all when he was being spoken to.
2 old friends of mine visited, said hello and smiled to DS and he didn't smile back, he just gave a straight faced hello whilst looking down, then looked away. He walked off without saying a word to her, and my friend said to me "He doesn't want to see us does he" in a sarcastic and challenging tone of voice, and she looked visibly pissed off. This friend buys him birthday and Christmas presents every year, through his whole life and still to this day. I'd briefed him beforehand about manners and how he must ensure good manners and be polite to these close friends of mine, as I pre-empted what his behaviour would be like. Still, he still couldn't be polite.
I am really, seriously struggling with this.
I have talked to him over and over again about this. I understand a 14 year old boy isn't going to go around hugging adult women like he did when he was 6, and I understand that puberty brings self consciousness, but for God's sake, he can't say a basic hello and look at someone in the eye anymore?! It's insane.
What is going on with him?
If he'd been like this his whole life I'd have maybe some understanding, or at least acceptance. But how has he gone from such a bright, happy soul smiling and talking and looking at all the adults in his life, to this?

Exactly the same happened to my DD puberty hit earlier at 10 she turned for of rage, miserable wouldn’t make eye contact not even with doctor she is not awaiting assessment. She would melt down after any social gathering stopped attending kids parties or anywhere busy.

I was totally confused how can she walk around a busy city centre but not be at busy party. Social anxiety and pressure of that. She was so happy I was baffled for a year but then all the signs started coming together. School avoidance, which in itself is awful but I believe it’s the social aspect.

YouHaveAnArse · 09/10/2025 15:14

I'm sure he feels great being constantly told that he's a rude embarrassment to you and everyone else you know.

Sandy483 · 09/10/2025 15:15

He stopped wanting to be your perfect little doll and now wants to develop his own personality. It's perfectly normal.

If you're really 'enraged' by this then i think you're the one with the issue.

Original poster
GreenLingo · 09/10/2025 15:15

I am not criticising him.
He doesn't know I am despairing.
I am doing a very good job of playing it cool around him about all this. Yes, I talk to him about manners, yes I do, but I don't do it in a critical "You're being really rude and everyone thinks your bloody rude" type of way. I'm talking to him in a broader "Good manners matter because it shows people we respect them" general chat type of a way. In the same way I talk to him about healthy eating, say, or screen time. I keep it light, but I do revisit it.
I would never ever in a million years dream of actually prompting him in front of someone. Never would I embarrass him like that. I do just let him be. But in social situations that we are going to, I do say, in a lighthearted way, gently, "You don't need to hold a conversation but just say Hello politely and Bye politely".
I am not showing any of my angst about this in front of him.
I'm literally just letting it all out on MN! I'm venting!
No, he's not on YouTube or tiktok.
He's very good with screen time actually, seems to self regulate his screen use.
He's got good friends. His friends love him, actually. He gets plenty of invites with friends. And his friends are all nice boys, no concerns there.
He's unbelievably loving and affectionate towards me. Gives me great big bear hugs (he's taller than me now, and I'm tall!) spontaneously as I walk past. He does the same to DH and to his little DS too. Tells me he loves me every day without fail before leaving for school. He even said last week "Thank you for being such a good mum, you're always there for me, you always support me, and you always listen to me". He's eloquent and insightful and interested in the world around him, and he is so, so funny - he has us in stitches laughing at home!
He regails me with funny anecdotes about his school day when he gets home.
He is a lovely boy.
My only frustration is this social shutdown he's displaying to every known adult in his life!!

OP posts:
Lucy2586 · 09/10/2025 15:16

GreenLingo · 09/10/2025 15:15

I am not criticising him.
He doesn't know I am despairing.
I am doing a very good job of playing it cool around him about all this. Yes, I talk to him about manners, yes I do, but I don't do it in a critical "You're being really rude and everyone thinks your bloody rude" type of way. I'm talking to him in a broader "Good manners matter because it shows people we respect them" general chat type of a way. In the same way I talk to him about healthy eating, say, or screen time. I keep it light, but I do revisit it.
I would never ever in a million years dream of actually prompting him in front of someone. Never would I embarrass him like that. I do just let him be. But in social situations that we are going to, I do say, in a lighthearted way, gently, "You don't need to hold a conversation but just say Hello politely and Bye politely".
I am not showing any of my angst about this in front of him.
I'm literally just letting it all out on MN! I'm venting!
No, he's not on YouTube or tiktok.
He's very good with screen time actually, seems to self regulate his screen use.
He's got good friends. His friends love him, actually. He gets plenty of invites with friends. And his friends are all nice boys, no concerns there.
He's unbelievably loving and affectionate towards me. Gives me great big bear hugs (he's taller than me now, and I'm tall!) spontaneously as I walk past. He does the same to DH and to his little DS too. Tells me he loves me every day without fail before leaving for school. He even said last week "Thank you for being such a good mum, you're always there for me, you always support me, and you always listen to me". He's eloquent and insightful and interested in the world around him, and he is so, so funny - he has us in stitches laughing at home!
He regails me with funny anecdotes about his school day when he gets home.
He is a lovely boy.
My only frustration is this social shutdown he's displaying to every known adult in his life!!

Seriously he could be mildly on the spectrum my DD did all of this when puberty hit she was totally chatting and happy before.

IfNot · 09/10/2025 15:17

God yeah just ignore him and stop trying to make him talk to your friends!
He sounds incredibly anxious and maybe depressed so I would try and make sure he’s not accessing stuff he shouldn’t be online and that nothing bad is happening at school.
But generally teenagers need space and to be ignored quite a lot!

Delphiniumandlupins · 09/10/2025 15:17

You claim all you want is "Hello", "Please" and "Thank you" but your OP is all about smiles, eye contact, hugs and conversations. You took lots of pride in your son's social skills and it probably wasn't really down to your great parenting - he was just a naturally smiley, sociable boy. So this isn't about you either. Ease up and he will come round in time. Perhaps he interacts better when you aren't around?

InMyShowgirlEra · 09/10/2025 15:18

DSD is the same and although she was always a bit rude she's got a lot worse. When we bump into someone we know and they hello to her, they're lucky if they get a grunt in response and everything she does say is in a sarcastic tone of voice. I feel like dying of shame sometimes when I can see their confused faces and they try and fail to interact with her.

I have no solutions, I've gone over and over the basics (like when someone asks "How are you?" don't just sullenly mutter "Good" without looking up from your phone as if they've rudely interrupted you, try, "Good thank you, how are you?" and giving them your full attention) but it goes nowhere.

The worst of it is how it impacts on her own chances, my parents have some contacts in the field she's interested in working in but there's no chance they'd introduce her to them because she would be embarrassingly rude.

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