To be increasingly enraged by 14 yr old DS's social etiquette

[GreenLingo]

Or more to the point - lack of etiquette.
Oldest child, first to hit teen years, so I've got no experience.
I need some advice.
I place a lot of importance on good manners and good etiquette. I just think it's so important in life.
I have drilled it in to my kids since they were old enough to start understanding, as in around 2 years old.
One of the things I'm really big on is being polite to others.
DS, as a primary school age child, up until he left at the age of 11, was a ray of sunshine. My God, I think back and he was just this ball of bright, radiant, happy, smiling, laughing, energy, he was a very engaged and engaging child. He constantly looked happy. And after all my hard work of teaching him manners and social etiquette, he displayed them beautifully. He would greet every adult he knew, i.e. my adult friends, DH's friends, adult family members such as my brother, my mum, the parents of his school friends, teachers, etc., with direct eye contact, a huge smile, and a hello. They would talk to him, ask how his day has been, and he would cheerfully and confidently answer them and openly chat to them whilst still maintaining eye contact and exhibiting brilliant social manners. Adults that are close family friends, and family members, would extend their arms to hug him and he would happily hug them and smile at them. I would receive endless compliments from these adults about how polite he was, and how good his manners were, and they would all comment on how lovely he was. He was like this right up to age of late 11.
When he started secondary school aged 12, he suddenly shut down socially and suddenly started to find direct eye contact difficult in conversation with these same adults, so he started looking away from them when they spoke to him - the exact same adults he'd spent his whole childhood happily chatting to and engaging with and spending loads of time with, so I'm talking about adults he knows really well - and he stopped smiling at these same adults.
I explained to him it is really important to look at someone when they are speaking to you, otherwise it looks rude, or sends signals that you're not listening, but literally overnight he just suddenly couldn't do it anymore.
I put it down to shyness maybe developing with the onset of puberty. He was growing much taller, his voice was changing, his appearance was changing, new secondary school changes, his lifelong best friend friendship broke down which upset him, and I just thought maybe he's overwhelmed by all these changes and is feeling self conscious. The same adults started commenting on it to me, noticing how different he was behaving towards them when they saw him, and were asking me if he was ok. I used to apologise and explain that puberty had brought a sudden attack of shyness with it and they would all sagely nod and say "Ah I see, of course, yes. It'll pass."
Fast forward another 2 years and his social manners are an absolute disgrace. My God, he is so rude to people. He won't look at them. He will not meet their direct eye contact. He won't smile at them. He won't say a basic hello to them. If he is asked a direct question by them, he won't answer in more than 1 word and even then he'll say it to the ground, not to their face. I've told him, if you're finding it difficult to talk to people, just at least smile at them. A smile can say so much. But he will not smile at anyone.
It's killing me, socially. I'm dying of embarrassment. These are lovely, non intimidating adults who are either long standing family friends or family members who he has known and spent quality time with all his life.
Yesterday, I was on the village green talking to a mum friend. We have been to several parties at her house with DS. She has hosted him. Openly welcomed him at her house. He has given her a hug over the years upon arriving and leaving her parties with us. Yesterday, he walked past me and her on his way home from school, he wouldn't even look at her. She tried really hard to catch his eye to smile, and he just made sure he looked away. He would not look at or smile at her. I walked over to him whilst she was seeing to her dog, and asked him to please say hello to her. He would not. He wouldn't answer me and he wouldn't speak to her.
I could give umpteen examples of this. So many social situations where he is blanking my friends, blanking parents of his friends, people whose homes he has spent time in for years. Even to family members, my brother and mum, his uncle and grandmother, he has stopped hugging them and barely speaks a word to them.
I can see the confusion in people's faces, and I can see that they sometimes look a bit hurt, or a bit offended, by his blanking of them. No amount of me explaining to him about how he is coming across to others is having any impact. And believe me, I've talked to him about it over and over again.
Took DS to a medical appointment yesterday. A 45 minute consultation, where a professional was directly talking to him and trying to get information from him (he has a medical health condition). Not once would DS meet their eyeline. Not once did he give eye contact.
I took him to a GP last week because he was ill and needed antibiotics. Wouldn't look at the doctor at all when he was being spoken to.
2 old friends of mine visited, said hello and smiled to DS and he didn't smile back, he just gave a straight faced hello whilst looking down, then looked away. He walked off without saying a word to her, and my friend said to me "He doesn't want to see us does he" in a sarcastic and challenging tone of voice, and she looked visibly pissed off. This friend buys him birthday and Christmas presents every year, through his whole life and still to this day. I'd briefed him beforehand about manners and how he must ensure good manners and be polite to these close friends of mine, as I pre-empted what his behaviour would be like. Still, he still couldn't be polite.
I am really, seriously struggling with this.
I have talked to him over and over again about this. I understand a 14 year old boy isn't going to go around hugging adult women like he did when he was 6, and I understand that puberty brings self consciousness, but for God's sake, he can't say a basic hello and look at someone in the eye anymore?! It's insane.
What is going on with him?
If he'd been like this his whole life I'd have maybe some understanding, or at least acceptance. But how has he gone from such a bright, happy soul smiling and talking and looking at all the adults in his life, to this?

How sad for your DC that your more bothered about him embarrassing you than his wellbeing.

Another one to advise leaving him alone.

You get bear hugs from him - be grateful because this will stop one day.

My son is just entering this phase. I think its hormonal, trying to be cool and separate their identities and be grown up but not really understanding how to actually do it. Have to drag a conversation out of him and even then I cant understand what he is saying as it it either mumbled, talking about 200 miles an hour or using words I dont understand like sigma. I am sure this will pass. They have the skills, they learnt them but now just choosing not to use them.

I didn’t mean that. I meant that even though he was hugging people when he was little, he could be autistic.

Take note of what @bluebluezoo said. Even if you have not said he embarrasses you to him he will have picked up on it. Imagine what it will do to his self esteem if he internalises your feelings.
I think this is a you problem rather than him. Leave him to resolve this on his own, which he most likely will, you are not helping and possibly making it worse.
You should be happy that at his age he is affectionate and warm towards you and his family and has friends. Many teenagers are not

That’s a very long-winded way of saying “my son is a typical teenage boy”

Mine was the same and is now 21. I wish I'd addressed it sooner. No idea why he's like this but it started in high school too.

I totally agree.. I had a relative who used to do that to me...it was excruciating.

Yes its good to have manners but your post sounded like you expected him to perform to a wide range of people. Its people pleasing training.

"I used to apologise and explain that puberty had brought a sudden attack of shyness with it and they would all sagely nod and say "Ah I see, of course, yes. It'll pass."

You said that right in front of him!

Please put yourself in his shoes and just imagine how he must have felt hearing you say that to everyone he doesn't perform for... and have them agreeing with you right in front of him.

No wonder he's not keen on socialising. Having you and your friends evaluating his greetings or lack of. He's embarrassed and probably angry.

He's now a teen, he's growing, his body, his voice, his interests are all changing. Teens are much more sensitive and easily embarrassed by other people's lame attempts at crass comments.... and you are constantly apologising to them in front of him... doubling down on his "lack of manners" when he's probably cringing.

Please stop doing this to him.... and stop talking about him to others as though he's not there.. it's so hurtful. You are supposed to be his support and defender.
looking at your post you say.
" But how has he gone from such a bright, happy soul smiling and talking and looking at all the adults in his life, to this?"

and

"I have talked to him over and over again about this."

Who wants to be compared negatively to their childhood self when they are trying to cope with being a teen? And be told that they are no longer bright happy souls. Its very unfair

Read your post back @GreenLingo. You are hyper focused on what your friends and
family think and of your own embarrassment.

What about your son? Have you bothered to find out if everything is ok with him?

Has the knowledge/understanding of adolescence just... fucked off and vanished?

His brain is going through some pretty massive updates. His hormones are going nuts.

He will feel anxious, insecure, hyper aware of how anxious/insecure he feels, hyper aware of every nuance of social interaction and suddenly aware there may be umpteen hidden meanings behind things.

He is flooded, every day at school by being put in an environment where he has few choices and cannot opt out, avoid, remove himself from ENDLESS social interaction with other people going through exactly the same stuff.

His brain and body are preparing him for all sorts of things, he will feel much more complicated, conflicting emotions...

It is zero surprise to me (someone currently studying the effects of adolescence across a range of species) that he is struggling massively with being polite and friendly, and in particular, with eye contact and physical contact.

Stop pushing it, school is unavoidable for most, outside of that, leave him be!

I know you mean well OP but being 'enraged' and in 'despair' at your child going through a perfectly natural developmental stage suggests you and your friends are the problem. Evolution has built-in this stage to perpetuate humanity, your son is being prepared to have his own independent identity, to leave the nest and in due course to have his own children. It's not a trivial change, his brain is being rewired from the ground up.

He actually sounds great and probably feels under appreciated by his mum and her friends, there will be far worse in his circle. Give him some credit and some time. Maybe look at this
BBC - The teenage brain

Hi Op, it all sounds normal teen behaviour (sorry!)

On the whole they become super self-conscious, massively embarrassed by their parents, any siblings, or parent’s friends and it’s all such an awkward age.

The good news is that they do come back round. One of mine barely spoke for years 13-16ish, his once great table manners didn’t exist, he never smiled and you wouldn’t believe what he’s like now. He has the loveliest smile and brilliant social graces. Chats to everyone, helps people and no longer shovels his food in at double speed!

Try not to worry, just love him through it and try not to place your expectations on him too much. Your friends won’t mind. If they’ve got children they’ve either been through it, are going through it, or are dreading it themselves!

One great piece of advice I got was that teen boys find face to face conversations hard, and to chat when you were alongside instead. Pretty sure it was in the book “Raising Boys” and they suggested chatting in the car or washing/drying up together. This worked brilliantly for us. One son also used to perch on the end of my bed just as I was about to go to sleep and would chat loads then, often the important stuff I’d been wondering about! I don’t think it was deliberately done because it was my bedtime, he was just more of a night owl and was ready to chat there and then. I stopped nagging about bedtime - he still gets by on very little sleep. We agreed he could decide for himself the whole time he was getting up and ready on time in the mornings which he did.

I think with teens we have to meet them where they are, and not expect them to meet us where we are. The other great advice was to pick my battles and choose carefully, and try never to get drawn in to an argument. They’re practising voicing views and opinions, often opposed to their parents’ just because, and can be stubborn.

It’s so hard because it happens just as we’ve got them to a good place! All those years helping them develop their skills and ‘boom’ the teen hormones kick in!

It was much easier the next time round with younger siblings.

Watch “Kevin and Perry” when it’s Kevin’s 13th birthday - it’s a classic and shows teens have always been similar.

Chill, you've just described my son ! You are very lucky he is still talking to you ! All I get is a grunt now ! ( He talked non stop before secondary).

Honestly OP, you don’t know how lucky you are, having a son who is happy, has friends, loves his family etc. Plenty of teenagers are sullen with everyone, all the time.

I remember at that age having absolutely no idea how to interact with adults that weren’t my parents. Younger children don’t think about it, they’re just themselves, talking, laughing etc. But teens become painfully aware of everything, and embarrassed for much of the time. I remember being a sweet chatty little kid, but once I hit the teen years I just didn’t know what to say to adults, I didn’t know who I was or how I was meant to be, and it was far easier to grunt and go to my room!

If they can immediately switch it off and answer questions politely and show engagement in an interview then they can do the same in social situations. Only being polite to someone when they can give you something you want is absolutely rude.

This OP. Get off his back.

I was like this. And my family were very accepting, which is lovely, right?

Except actually some pretty awful stuff had happened to me and what I really needed (although I certainly didn't know this at the time) was an adult to step in, work out what was happening and (metaphorically) fight back for me.

If he is chatty and happy with you and his friends- if you have a delightful 14 year old son who willingly hugs you - then you and he are doing fine.

Do gently give friends permission not to buy him gifts, thank them for being so thoughtful over the years etc.
Explain to them that he is struggling to connect with adults, it is nothing personal, you are sure he will grow past it. Don't be embarrassed by your son, shrug it off. If your friends are decent people they will accept it as what it is - a nice kid going through an awkward stage - and handle it gracefully.

A ND awareness session I took at work, the autistic trainer explained that she found trying to keep eye contact with people almost physically painful. And likened parents/teachers trying to force kids to do it as similar to when teachers would tie kids left hands behind their back to force them to learn to write with their right hand. Just flagging in case this is something he is feeling, ND or not.

Have none of your friends or family (or you) ever met a 14 year old boy before?!

Look, if this child was otherwise a total dick, I'd agree with you. But he sounds generally great, and this isnt put of the realm of teen behaviour, and he is still saying hi, so im just saying this isnt a hill to die on. We all have times in our life where we dont 'perform' well socially for a myriad of reasons (sometimes its teen hormones, some people struggle their whole lives, some people are oblivious their whole lives, some people are abrasive without meaning to...) he is engaged otherwise, he says hi, he has good role models, its a known teenage phase, Im just saying its a very mild issue in an otherwise great sounding person, so its not something to panic or get irate over.

You've made his struggles all about you and how it makes YOU feel. Clearly, something is up with him - but instead of giving him space to open up to you, you have criticised him and complained - causing him to shut down further.

Probably one of the most self-absorbed posts I've read on here. Maybe he's just taking your lead, OP?

He's a teenager i've got a 25 and 20 year old were simmilar to that now totally different polite chatty everything you could wish for

Teenage boys can be like this. My DB was like this from the ages of about 14 - 16, mainly with older adults. My DM used to kick off at him all the time about it too which just made the whole situation worse.

Just leave him alone and he will come around eventually.

It’s definitely his age.

I had one that wasn’t like that and one that was. DC2 has just started uni and is coming out of that stage as he’s on his own and HAS to be polite and speak directly to people.

My friends son was like this until he was 26! Even with his own work colleagues. He seems to have grown up now.

This