To wonder what people actually expect and why they can’t just be happy to live simply?

[Terrazzomazzo]

So many posts on here of people saying that they are running out of money and “I have no fun money” et. Why can’t people just be happy that they have enough to pay their mortgage pay their bills and feed their family and clothe their children? When did holidays , excess “stuff” and weekends of fun days out and take away etc become a given right and expectation?

Why? Because people want to live and not just exist, maybe? What a bizarre outlook.

@Ohtheplaces

You have raised a very good point
Post the 2008/9 crash the tory government went hell for leather with quantative easing , they didn't not want a financial disaster on their watch.
As a result interest rates were low, credit plentiful and cheap.
People had access to credit and spending was encouraged, SM like Instagram encouraged it with lavish lifestyles being depicted on average salaries hence the rise of large cars,high end kitchens, botox, hair, nails , fillers.
Credit was easy to get, 0% offers, Klarna meant people didn't budget, they just spent.
The Dream not really

Tories also came up with H2B scheme to artificially inflate the new housing market .

Then Covid, interest rates rose massively, wage stagnation , CoL and lending rules, particularly over persistent debt were tightened.

H2B loans to be paid back, massive jump in mortgage payments, flats subject to huge rises in service charges
Student loans accruing interest

Many people have a huge amount of DEBT ,shouting for the irresponsible lenders who called it credit .
They can barely now meet their basic needs of housing,utilities, food.

I think there's a whole range of spending patterns between living miserably and being a spendthrift.

I know people who go out to concerts/events every week, drinks out or takeaways several times a week, have hair or nails done every few weeks....but dont always have money for mundane/essential things.
Would it really be "living miserably" if they went to one concert a month, or didnt have a coffee out every day, maybe had a meal out every fortnight? You'd probably save a few hundred quid a month and still have a few treats to look forward to.

Check out
Maslows hierarchy of special needs
It's interesting and explains a lot about us as humans.

Agree with this
People are being mentally/ financially/ socially dismantled by exploitation of vulnerability.
It's sinister

My grandparents lived a simple life and were happy. They'd still occasionally go out for a meal with friends, or have a few days away in Llandudno, or a day out at horse races. That was it though.

My teens always want stuff though, and are very materialistic. I try to rein it in, as I hate debt.

Hmm 🤔 there is living simply and then there’s living miserably.
I enjoy days at home , dog walks , cooking, sitting in the garden , reading a book.
I am happy enough with a day out at the coast in decent weather and simple but clean accommodation on a UK holiday .
However ..even that does cost and I do like a coffee out , even if it’s just to takeout with a sandwich from a bakery sat in a park or a bench somewhere.
So I say I live fairly simply but definitely not miserably .

Yes but Llandudno is 🥰

Because simply paying my mortgage and bills and doing nothing else except going to work sounds incredibly boring to me.

The real problem is that a lot of people are not getting a secure roof over their heads. The rental market is insecure - I know of so many people who have to move on a regular basis due to rent increases etc. I think a lot of young people basically despair of getting on the property ladder, have no security in the rental market and look to other things - especially holidays and experiences out of the house to compensate for the shitness of their living situation. OP is out of touch in saying people should "just be happy that they have enough to pay their mortgage pay their bills and feed their family and clothe their children?" Lots of people see a mortgage as unachievable and can't afford the family either. It is the thoughts of someone who is so privileged they don't recognise their own privilege to be honest.

I don't think it's 'special' needs, just need!

It's a great triangle though-puts things into perspective.

I was watching a show on channel 4 where older people are teamed up with younger folk ( can’t remember its title ) and it was set in Japan.
The older ones seem more content and confident and had good jobs previously, but the younger ones didn’t have such good jobs , working really hard no doubt , but maybe not as many prospects as the older ones may have had historically. It struck me how becoming the service industry over the years , rather than manufacturing or engineering hasn’t added much to people’s expectations to earn more money and progress. I’m sure that many will, but it feels a pretty closed book for many to be able to afford to buy a house or to increase their salaries. Even those with degrees are saddled with debt and the work place is just so toxic too. Being young ( for many) is much harder these days I think ( in my opinion anyway )

There is actually a diagram where is shows how MHN and unmet needs in childhood impact children, particularly in ND .
It literally destroys their life chances

@Londonmummy66 I totally agree about this - and it’s not just young people - we are 63 and 61 and aren’t going to be buying ‘unless’ we inherit - various reasons for this including a failed business at one point - we do earn well, just can’t get mortgages at our age unless we have 50% deposit etc. so yes, we do have holidays, eat well, go to gigs etc - as other things in life are less secure -

So youbwere from a well off family then. The average people didn't do all this paid stuff in 70/80s when I was a child

‘I think a lot of young people basically despair of getting on the property ladder, have no security in the rental market and look to other things - especially holidays and experiences out of the house to compensate for the shitness of their living situation’ @Londonmummy66 I kind of agree with a couple of caveats; first, young people becoming adults now have known nothing but rising consumerism, it’s a norm to them and giving it up isn’t easy. Second, their living situation isn’t always shitty, it’s very comfortable and easy for many to stay at a parents. But yes I agree, ‘wants’ are affordable and ‘needs’ are less so.

@carchi This isn’t Maslow’s hierarchy (fulfill the basic needs then take care of higher order needs), or rather it’s an inversion of that; putting self actualisation ahead of basic needs. I guess there have always been people who do this (‘all fur coat and no knickers’) but it seems common place now.

Appreciate this isn’t everyone but in my street there are several ‘kidults’ driving expensive cars, spending £££ on clothes, nails, make up, holidays, hen nights etc and living in annexes/rooms with en-suites where their boyfriends and friends come and go as though it were their own place; they want to carry on with that lifestyle whilst also paying a mortgage. Giving those things up would be a loss to them and at the same time wouldn’t yield enough for a deposit on a place that would suit them, so they stay put.

Brilliant post
The issue is that stuff doesnt lead to true self actualisation, it's all smoke and mirrors.
It's the appearance of wealth, success, doing well through climbing the ladder, hard work but without actually achieving that or having a stable financial life.

It's debt or as the young call it credit.
They actually believe what is available to them is theirs to spend .

Because life for me would be absolutely shite if I didn’t get away 4 times a year!
it’s the only reason why I work!!

Why say bizarre? Why can't they have a different outlook from you?

Even living simply is harder now.

Being at home can be unenjoyable when you are overcrowded and cannot get away from all the noise and housework that needs doing.

Sitting in a garden is nice, as long as you have a garden to sit in.

Dog walks are great as long as you can afford a dog and can get somewhere nice to have a walk. Miles of rubbish filled pavements with no greenery is somewhat less attractive to walk along, with or without a dog.

Cooking is great unless you have a tiny cramped kitchen and cannot afford the ingredients and pans.

Beer and the cinema appear to have been much more affordable in the past.

It’s taken my twenty something son years to save for a deposit for a place. He is hoping to buy a one bed flat , but that isn’t going to be easy ( we are in the south east, so not mega cheap to buy anything ) and on his own too , but it is hard for that generation even with two incomes or some family help or money.
Not impossible, just much harder.

Totally agree
They have gone from zero to luxury without any personal input at a very young age. What is driving their need. Is it peer group pressure, advertising, doting parents possibly all of those.

Well, first I am very aware that each generation think the previous one is lacking and that they had it harder! I think the key factor is that many things have become the norm. All the girls have false eyelashes, nails done, brows done etc etc The dial on what is normal and natural to look like has moved Even if you aren’t keen on these things you want to fit in; that’s normal too. It’s horrible to have to be the one dropping out of activities and events or ever being included as you just don’t fit. I heard a colleague say their daughter was 11 and it gets expensive because they ‘need’ nails done every, I dunno what is 4 weeks, five?? So yes, parents drive this too. I am often glad I don’t have a girl wanting funds for all these things plus they would have probably disowned their crazy looking mum by now, where as my son doesn’t seem to care (yet).

Er not "all the girls" want eyelashes/nails/tans etc. Mine doesn't, her friends don't! They are teens.

Late to the party of this thread!

I do think this is all a bit “why do the peasants need to do anything apart from work?”

Obviously people want nice things in their lives.

Lots of pps have set out some very good theories as to why a lot of people are unrealistic these days. But I do think we should be aiming as a society for people to be able to be something other than drones.