To wonder what people actually expect and why they can’t just be happy to live simply?

[Terrazzomazzo]

So many posts on here of people saying that they are running out of money and “I have no fun money” et. Why can’t people just be happy that they have enough to pay their mortgage pay their bills and feed their family and clothe their children? When did holidays , excess “stuff” and weekends of fun days out and take away etc become a given right and expectation?

Wow so Apple are thriving on second hand / old models ship- who knew? A quarter of 4-5 year olds have smart phones. The majority of phone ownship
amongst the young are iPhones , stands to reason many are newer models and expensive. And an internet search will show you an iPhone 15 ( released 2 years ago) starts at £600! Then there is the package and replacement when they inevitably break them. Then there are iPads and laptops on top. Parents are spending huge amounts of money on tech. They’re increasingly being banned in schools so it really isn’t necessary to have an all singing all dancing phone. A brick and a family lap top is fine.

Absolutely this!
Everyone has so much but people are so unhappy.

Agreed. I think it's crazy the amount people spend on tech. Upgrading to the new model which is pretty much identical to the former model. And with new functions most people don't even end up using. I only ever get a new phone if the one I have breaks or the battery gets worn out. I preferred the old style with a removable/replaceable battery.
I made sure the last phone i got was guaranteed to get software updates for a few years so it wouldn't become obsolete too quickly.
Of course I love the convenience of a phone. Like being able to scroll through Mumsnet right now. But I also often wish I could throw it in the bin and do without.

I agree. People going on about gardening/creating a nice garden, arts and crafts and walking the dog.
All of those things can be costly to set up and maintain but somehow those are 'simple and good' activities but others such as going on holiday or travelling are to be frowned upon as needless luxuries.

Thank you! I thought that too. They're not even free activities.

But credit cards meant people had the choice to spend money they didn't have, more demand = cheaper prices.

When I was growing up Mum would have physical money in her purse.
Once it was spent, there was no more.
For a family a good cook was revered and providing for your family on budget was a skill.

Im usually aggrieved at the cost when I buy a new phone.....but playing devil's advocate, we are basically using phones for all kinds of stuff that original phones didnt do.
Im pretty sure no one buys a tomtom or sat nav now because its either in our car already or we use a phone. I send and read majority of emails on my phone...rather than a PC or lap top, I do banking on the phone ...rather than going to a bank and to a certain degree shopping...rather than going to shops. (Although I've never spent more than 500 on a phone)

My late mil used to love knitting but I remember her telling me about 10 years ago that she spent £60 on wool for 1 jumper....so its not super cheap, although arguably cost/hour might be less than the cinema etc

But possibly there were few with your fathers qualifications. So he was relatively highly paid.
I left school 1970 2 went to do medicine, one to law, one to study languages but everyone went to jobs where they were trained or to colleges so out of 20 ,I would guess, 4got degrees -and this was the top class -oh and one went to art college.

Maybe they are talking about '5 minute crafts' type things like reusing cereal boxes. As someone who enjoys crafting, I had to stop certain activities due to the cost of materials. And when I think back to how much my mum spent doing her garden up. The compost, the plants, (many of which were annuals), replacing tools etc, she could have probably bought the latest iPhone
And the dog, oh my. Walking it is free but keeping it fed and healthy certainly isn't😂

Nope, I'm not.

OP is painting the sodding 80s and 90s as if everyone was stuck down the mines and everyone was happy about it.

Which is complete bollocks. If anything, people these days have less disposable income than 10/20 years ago, which is why people are going out less and so many leisure facilities/ pubs etc are closing.

Not necessarily

I have a group of friends who all swap seeds and plants.
I've saved seed from what Im growing for years.
I barely spend a few pounds a year.
I compost so I don't even buy that.

Sewing and knitting yes guilty but it takes me a while to sew or knit something.
I compared it to instant gratification items such as online shopping, make up and gaming which have an instant novelty which requires more and more purchases.

People can see what others have got a lot more easily these days and they want it too. It was easier years ago as you only had to look at a few holiday snaps , now it’s pretty much ‘ in your face ‘ so to speak ( Facebook Instagram etc)

Have you every looked at Maslow's hierarchy of needs?
Food and accommodation are literally the bottom rung of the ladder. It's everything else that makes you a healthy, happy human.

now I think the “norm” is to have everything.

very true

This OP sounds similar to the one from the other night, where that property-inheritance-in-waiting, holiday-til-you-drop poster was extolling the merits of intergenerational living and why aren't people all for it?

Living simply is lovely. Baking at home, gardening, country walks ...

But very expensive. Baking at home needs time which is in short supply when usually both parents work long hours. Gardening needs a garden and money for the garden centre (or space for a greenhouse to grow from seed) and country walks usually mean you either live somewhere pretty (and expensive) or can drive to it (so own a car).

So some people have to have little luxuries like soft play instead.

@krustykittens the thing is I’ve said this many times, the minimum wage here is no different to most parts of Europe, more than some and we lived in Denmark which is an expensive country - the big difference here is costs - ludicrous amounts of private rent in many parts of the country you would want to live, particularly in big cities, relatively desirable areas and ‘down south’ and lots of those people can’t buy either because house prices are out of all proportion to wages in those areas so people can’t get sufficient mortgages, particularly self employed . So when people say ‘well why rent’ - because many don’t have the choice. Then we also have incredibly high utility costs, privatising them made sure of that - high childcare costs ( even with the subsidies now in) - higher food costs as was always predicted post Brexit by all but those urging people to leave because ‘everything will be cheaper) - that went well

in addition we have a ton of people who are at the lower end of pay scales who expect to be able to work part time with kids ( or not in some cases) and get gvt top ups- now I do get this, if in that position I might feel the same but it isa fact if you choose to work 14 hours a week in a minimum wage job to ‘fit in’ with family life then that’s partly why you are struggling, even with top ups - you won’t likely be getting promotions either and once your kids leave home don’t have much to help you going forward income wise .

it really isn’t as simple as ‘wages are too low’ - there’s usually lots of other factors - one person I know working next to bugger all hours but with high child maintansnce for 2 over 10s and a good social housing flat and virtually full UC plus rent paid and maintanance on top has I know as much disposable income monthly as we do with a reasonably successful business and a decent rental house .

I absolutely think people need something to look forward to.

But what the 'something' is, and how often it needs to come around, is subject to the forces of capitalism. Capitalism's whole schtick is 'this will make you feel better. Without it, you're deprived. This is what someone of your calibre deserves'.

And if marketing didn't work, they wouldn't spend half their profits doing it - it's as simple as that.

People don't need central heating or washing machines. They can survive without them, of course. But having these things have a tangible and lasting impact on our quality of life. They give us more time, they make us more comfortable and less likely to get sick, etc.

But what is so distinctive about this moment is that the 'extras' that have come to feel like essentials do not actually affect our quality of life - they're primarily about appearance and 'brand'. Pedicures, skincare that's £70 for a month's worth, hair that costs £300 every 8 weeks. A £60K car.

It's so ... meaningless? Fleeting? In the case of the first examples, so fundamentally about the male gaze and our 'worth' as women being tied to our appeal? In the case of the car, so much about making other people feel 'less than'. As for 'brand', the instagrammability of any given moment - the appearance of the thing - is more important than the experience itself.

I'm not arguing for monk-like self-denial. I've never been immune. But when I was younger, I got pleasure from having a Marks and Spencers ready meal and a bottle of wine on a Friday night, seeking out 'posh' fashion bargains in the sales, and an annual bargain-flight-to-Greece-find-accommodation-when-you-get-there holiday that would cost the equivalent of maybe £400 in total.

The people I knew who spent a lot on hair and skincare were posh. I didn't think I had to do that too - I mean, I just knew I couldn't and that was that. It's not that I didn't care at all - I was envious, but I suppose my comfort was that I had a cool look, nice-ish things, stylish interiors, without paying through the nose. Life felt pretty good.

I admit too that I find it all incredibly vulgar. Competing for status through corporate luxury goods is just excruciating.

And fundamentally, caring about these things, to me, seems incredibly naff, because it's a sign both of superficiality, and of having been 'had' by corporate marketing.

I would love to see our teen boy faces, "right then you are consumerism sheep over this winter we shall not be using anything that needs electric and shall be growing our spring vegetables and knitting our own christmas jumpers, just think of the satisfaction of wearing something that took you 3000 hours to make"

I think they would section me, or at least try to. They would spend each and every hour without electric plotting how to get me out of the house. All with paper and pencil of course, if that's allowed?

Gaming is quite social, or can be, nowadays, it is in this house, there was some daft thing all with group phone calls about a court case where our teen was the case for prosecution, full of things that are supposed to be good for you, it was social, full belly laughing, mental puzzles, lots of jumping around, cheering.

It seemed far more engaging and healthy than sitting down sewing a cushion!

@thestudio yep - and I think social media has made it far easier to compare others lives including people you know - pictures constantly of friends exotic holidays, bottomless brunches with mates, house moves can make it feel like you are living a ‘lesser’ life if not doing that - and it does affect all ages, older people who are still on social media aren’t immune to it too

Haha!! brilliant

I doubt they would even glance at you with their wan faces, eyes glued to the screen.

My own DS became really insular, depressed and barely left his room.
Thank God he eventually realised and now does more sociable hobbies Park run, climbing , growing things.

They’re at the bottom because they are the most basic and necessary needs. That doesn’t really make them unimportant.

I’m guessing most people on MN (myself included) have never faced the prospect of being homeless or hungry though.

Glad your boy broke free from the online gaming pull.

Ours aren't addicted, they use online gaming in place of how we used tv/albums when we were teens. To be fair I would've probably made similar choices at their age, playing something with friends online for an hour or two instead of weekday evening tv.

Just making excuses. We both work full
time and I manage to bake and cook from scratch. You don’t need a greenhouse to have a garden, windowsills and zippers work fine, walking by outdoors don’t need to be in jaw dropping beauty- parks and all kinds of places get you outside.