To be late for school once a week?

[Latelateshowz]

(Writing this from DC POV.)

I am in year 13 at school. My school’s late policy is that you can be late once a week without any penalty. If you get two lates you get put on a report and have to turn up early for 2 weeks.

I don’t see the point of getting in on time just to sit around in form time or to go to an assembly. So I choose to make the most of the system that is in place and deliberately go in late once a week.

In case it is relevant, I have the second highest voluntary service hours in the school (this is for things like helping younger students, doing clubs etc) and I am predicted the highest grades. I’ve never had any detentions for behaviour etc.

My form tutor mentioned my punctuality in a recent parents meeting and my parents think I should just be on time. My view is that I am just making the most of the system the school has set up.

YABU: get yourself to school on time
YANBU: fair enough, be late if you want

I am reminded of Sr Michael’s view of Jenny Joyce. “You will go far in life, but you will not be well-liked.”

Just follow the rules and get to school on time.

The child isn't breaking any rules, the child understood the rules and follows them exactly as they are written.

There is no rule saying it is ok to park in disabled space once a fortnight.

But why?

Oh give over!
OP is just finding an interesting way to help her child make an informed decision about their behavior.

This is going to come down to whether people believe in following the spirit or the letter of the law.

There are plenty of people who believe that as long as the precise letter of a law is followed, it doesn't matter if the spirit of it is broken. This poorly-written system is probably in place to provide a buffer for unavoidable lateness, and to begin to prepare students the workplace, where a person is unlikely to be fired or disciplined for occasional (ie not weekly), unavoidable lateness.

A person who believes in generally behaving lawfully will follow the spirit of this law and will be late only occasionally. A person who only believes in operating legally and according to the precise wording of the rule will exploit it to its fullest. These are the people who make lots and lots of money through activities that are technically legal but morally grey, like tax avoidance and getting criminals off on technicalities. It's not a quality I'd personally encourage in my child.

That's fine, but often employers of young people often ask for a reference from school...... to include attendance, lates etc.
So many times people say only school rules, what does it matter, but its setting them up for work and the real world, employers have rules and hours of work which you need to follow to be paid, we have laws that have to be followed etc. Every action had a consequence.
But you enjoy that weekly lie in.

I don’t see it as brinkmanship. I see it like a firm saying you can wfh a day a week…and then complaining if you wfh a day a week.

so assembly and form aren’t important? Poor schools and poor teachers . And you’re teaching your child that they are better than the system. Personally I think you’re both being unreasonable.

It's a tradition for tradition's sake. The world has changed an awful lot since the implementation of statutory education but, the school day has not. These ways of setting up school were to prepare children for an industrial world that is largely gone. At what point do we question why are we still doing it like this? I think a young person who has clearly asked the question to themselves ,and found a loophole that proves the attendance at such events unnecessary, is someone with critical thinking skills I would be happy to employ.

Not really.
The school are saying you won’t penalised for occasional lateness not you can choose one day to have a lie in and actively choose to be late.

The firm isn't saying you can wfh one day a week. The firm is saying if you can't get into work for some good reason and you're forced to work from home one day in one particular week we won't issue a written warning.

If a business wrote a contract in such a way they would have no come back for an employee who used the extra late day each week. If they hadn't meant it to be used like that, they should have been very specific about it in the policy.

Year 13 is post-compulsory education, and the only statutory requirement is to be in education, employment, or training - not to attend school. Students who want a more adult experience in further education can attend college. Making the choice to remain in a school environment for sixth form generally means accepting the reality of remaining in a more traditional environment where the attendance expectation is not too dissimilar to KS3 and KS4. A student who doesn't want this should have gone to college.

Personally I see the kid’s point of view!

Schools start so early these days which really doesn’t fit with the teenage body clock. I can understand him trying to get some rest where he can!

If a work place had an exemption of a one day late policy without discipline, but you were late every week then you would get disciplined or fired.
The policy is to be used under certain circumstances, if something should arise. Plus if child keeps this attitude up it will follow said child into workplace, by giving the wrong attitude towards things, It's poor attendance and in the real working world there are consequences. .

I disagree.
It’s disrespectful and bratty. It suggests the child in question thinks their time is more important than everyone else’s.
If it was to attend a job, due to caring responsibilities or something valuable and useful then they’d have a point.
But just to have a lie in? Nope, it’s not showing critical thinking or challenging the system. It’s laziness and entitlement.

Doesn’t surprise me though, I teach at a university and see this type of behaviour regularly. It’s the type of student that works out what percentage their attendance can be before triggering attendance monitoring procedures.

If your DC needs convincing of the practical reasons why this isn't a good idea:

Form time might seem dull, but they'll miss all the important UCAS stuff and interview tips etc. Lots of stuff they need for their next step is covered here.

This will be taken into account in their reference. Being late once a week every week is something they will definitely mention.

If too many people start doing what your DC is doing, the school will take note and change the policy.

No but it doesn’t mean that employee would be well liked and viewed favourably for progression and promotion.
I’ve managed people with this attitude and quite frankly I’ve little patience for them.

@Holdonforsummer I’m not teaching my child any such thing. As is clear in my original post, I think that going in on time every day is the right thing to do. I also think that sometimes in life you just have to put up with stuff you don’t enjoy. So I think my DC IBU. But I also choose to pick my battles. In this instance, I don’t choose to enact massive punishments on a nearly-adult because their interpretation of a situation is different from mine.

Having been to several parents evenings I know that the school thinks very highly of DC and has written a glowing reference for UCAS (early entry). I’ve read several schools’ UCAS references and I’ve never seen punctuality or the lack of it being mentioned.

I dig a nun quote @TheSnorax but happy to report that DC is extremely likeable. Loveable indeed!

I’m sure they are perfectly delightful @Latelateshowz but they won’t be terribly
popular with their peers when the school change the policy and everyone knows it’s because LateShowz Minor couldn’t do without their weekly lie-in.

Haven't rtft.
I think the 'you can be late once a week without a penalty' thing is an absolutely idiotic idea and actually kind of misleading.

Imo this isn't true:
'Technically your dd is following the rules'.
Because presumably the school doesn't mean 'It's fine and perfectly within the school rules to be late once a week' (the school rules, I expect, say something like 'arrive at schoolby 8:45'). So being late once a week is against the school rules, it's just that it's below the threshold for a punishment to be applied. Why would they bring up her punctuality if she were sticking to the actual rules?

I’ve had another chat with DC and mentioned the reference issue — which isn’t relevant for UCAS but is relevant for a summer job potentially. I’ve also warned of the possibility of this approach coming back to bite them if they are genuinely late (as sometimes happens due to transport etc). These points may have landed.

I don’t believe that the school is going to change their policy just because my DC is challenging it in this way. But I do think that DC may find that some unwelcome sanctions are applied. Which is fine by me!

Good outcome, OP. And it might not just be your DC, so if loads are not acting “in the spirit” it may well be challenged. And a life lesson learned!

Good outcome and a good life lesson.

The policy is clearly there for unavoidable lateness not to give students one lie in a week.
The point made by a Pp is s good one, the policy isn’t permission to be late rather it’s setting a threshold for punishment.

Universities are hot on attendance and punctuality so while we clearly can’t force students to be there, there are sanctions for lateness and non attendance. Something for your DC to bear in mind!