To be late for school once a week?

[Latelateshowz]

(Writing this from DC POV.)

I am in year 13 at school. My school’s late policy is that you can be late once a week without any penalty. If you get two lates you get put on a report and have to turn up early for 2 weeks.

I don’t see the point of getting in on time just to sit around in form time or to go to an assembly. So I choose to make the most of the system that is in place and deliberately go in late once a week.

In case it is relevant, I have the second highest voluntary service hours in the school (this is for things like helping younger students, doing clubs etc) and I am predicted the highest grades. I’ve never had any detentions for behaviour etc.

My form tutor mentioned my punctuality in a recent parents meeting and my parents think I should just be on time. My view is that I am just making the most of the system the school has set up.

YABU: get yourself to school on time
YANBU: fair enough, be late if you want

I think it's the point you've missed, unfortunately.

They went against well ingrained systems. They beat them, too. Who knows where that spirit started? Probably thinking critically about the status quo deeply rather than blindly accepting received wisdom. Which may well have been not going to school (Greta ) going to school when the system forbade it (Malala) refusing to get up from a seat on the bus (Rosa) etc. Yes, these small acts can grow into something important when harnessed by someone who has the vision to see what could be. Not you though, it would seem. Perhaps stick to the irrelevant meetings, they seem to make you happy.

Then what happens in a genuine emergency when she has already used her safety day to doss off for a few hours?

@MathsLass I also made this point to DC.

I've not missed the point.
I've fought many a battle, challenged systems and fought for better conditions - as a female working in a male dominated profession I think you have to. I don't object to people going against well ingrained systems and challenging unfairness, quite the opposite.
However, this is not an example of that.
I can see that you are trying to make out that the student is fighting an important crusade but they aren't are they? They just want a lie in and they think they've found a loophole to entitles them to it. It doesn't come across as pioneering or 'fighting the good cause'. It just sounds lazy and a bit bratty imo.

As an aside...are the personal insults really necessary?

The fact that, as the parent, you have the audacity to ask such a question, in itself, tells me everything that I need to know about why your child is even suggesting such a stupid thing in the first place...

👍

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. It's lazy and doesn't show personal discipline.

People can keep trotting out this stuff about respect and desirable qualities from their personal perspective etc. but the reality is the student clearly isn't lazy and is very likely to go on to do well. Lots of people in highly successful careers, with strong friendships and relationships did a whole lot worse than skive off one assembly a week when they were at school. Yes that's frustrating for others who don't want to break the rules and don't have the audacity to exploit loopholes. So we can call them 'bratty' and arrogant - 'stupid' even - and really hope they have an emergency that then means they have to go in early for 2 weeks as punishment to let out our frustration and make ourselves feel better... but don't delude yourself that you're standing on some moral highground.

You are going to go far young lady.

@Shotokan101 ahhh the thread police are making another appearance!

The fact that there are wide variety of responses to my question, most of them thoughtful, reasoned and grown-up, demonstrates that my question wasn’t in the slightest bit “audacious”. What a bizarre allegation.

As I’ve said several times, I don’t share my DC’s view of the matter but I also don’t feel it would be appropriate or proportionate to mete out a punishment for this choice to a near adult. I have an excellent relationship with my DC and believe that at this age, communication and negotiation are much more valuable than laying down the law.

Both my DC are successful academically and are also pleasant people, with lots of friends and good relationships with bosses and superiors as well as their peers.

Who’s the stupid one? Is it just a pleasant pastime to pop on to threads and scatter a few insults?

Not unreasonable. I was late most days (my form tutor wouldn’t mark me absent until I wasn’t there at lunch as he knew what I was like). I got the top A level result so basically put effort where it was needed

...and there we have it, further proof of the irresponsible behaviour as a parent passing on your "only follow the rules you agree with that don't inconvenience you" attitude to your children.....

You can be successful, intelligent and have excellent prospects AND display occasional bratty/selfish/disrespectful behaviour. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

Nobody is taking the moral high ground. They’re just viewing this behaviour differently. Plus people are influenced by their own experiences. I’ve been the person organising events for students (often ones they specifically requested!) where students didn’t bother turning up and I’ve also been the visitor dealing with mortified teachers apologising for low attendance.
So of course that’s going to influence how I view this type of behaviour.

@Shotokan101 you know that thing where what you accuse someone of is what you are yourself? Are you stupid? I’ve literally said that I disagree with DC’s view and approach. But I won’t be issuing threats or punishments to an 18 year old who is hitting all their targets while being an overall pleasant person.

Id give you a treat for your obvious smarts! Well done on those voluntary service hours too!!

They are doing well in general, so pushing the boundaries in the thinnest way, quite like their attitude.

As parents what have you brought them up like? Sounds like they know their own mind which surely as parents of teens/late teens that's what we strive for... I certainly encouraged that for my only. Who incidentally is doing exceptionally well at a RG Uni studying Dentistry from a single parent, low income household

If the school clock on you are using the policy in the way and/or others clock on do the same and then the school clock on - the policy will go or become more draconian - then if you have a genuine reason to be late you might regret your life choices?

In all fairness as a bright but naughty 10 year old I spent a term writing 1 2 10 and when the teacher said write 1 to 10 in our mental maths books and had him wonder why I was only getting 3 / 10. I thought I was so clever only doing 3 questions! This seems more sophisticated and useful but somehow in the same vain!

Comprehensive secondary teacher and Sixth Form tutor here OP. Don't expect the school to write a decent reference if your child deliberately goes in late frequently. Tutor times are not 'free' it's where the teacher will liaise with your child re UCAS and get to know them better. Predicted grades and voluntary hours are not relevant to this and do not give you carte blanche to do what you like re attendance. It is also when notices and information is passed on to students. In employment you'll need to turn up even if you think it unnecessary.

At my school we have removed the word 'free' have 'study' periods supervised. Exceptions can be made where there's a significant reason. One student worked at a stables and had to muck out in the morning. Another was a high level swimmer and had hours of training in the early morning.

Those saying it doesn't matter. Just think of the pastoral time taken to chase this, explain this and then fill in any information missed. I had a colleague who used to simply write a reference that the student was a child at the school and the dates they attended. That was for more significant absence though.

If the times is used for something more meaningful which includes good quality rest, reading... I don't see a problem. My DD is still in the primary and her most hated part of the school time is attending the assemblies which is so superficial, meaningless, unnecessary waste of time. So, I'm for 'less nonsense' in life!

@GentleMintCat that makes me sad to read. Does she not see any benefit? Do they not create more a community feel in the school? My two quite enjoyed assemblies and it was also an opportunity for information to be shared with the children whether that's a charity fundraiser, if they could play on the field and inter house competitions etc. They still remember the assembly about bullying. Quite a lot of thought usually goes into them.

OP I would think carefully about condoning this. You might feel that this is fine to do but you are setting up a president of 'opting' in to something rather than fulfilling your obligations as a student. I know that this is now an issue in the work place as well as so many individuals think regs don't apply to them or that you can just bend the system to what is preferable to you.

You don't think the school are going to come down heavy on the same kid pulling the same stunt on the same day every week! It's to not penalise kids whose school bus might late on the odd occasion & unpredictable stuff! Not a perk for every kid to utilise every week! What do you think it would be like for schools if every kid did it! You are congratulating a kid who will face consequences before long!

So you think kids should arrive at school whenever they feel like, multiple kids should do it every day to exploit the rule and you would congratulate that! Ok so if there's a fire and the fire brigade turn up but there are incomplete registers of which kids are on site because they don't turn up to be seen by their form tutors in a morning, do you understand the dangers of that?

Overreaction much?

The organisations/systems get to make the rules.
If they make stupid or ill thought through rules that don't serve them or can be exploited, that's on them. If they don't like the rule, or the consequences/effects it has, they can change it.

The kid is operating inside the stated rule, so no, the school has no basis to come down hard on them. Might have a quiet word if it's a problem, or change the rule if they really object.

There is no doubt a mechanism for signing in late, if the school deems that necessary, so your fire example is pure hyperbole.

I do believe people should think through their own actions, and make decisions on the basis of their own independent thought, not on the basis of blind rule following, yes. There are many rules which do not make sense or are not in the interests of anyone except the rule-maker.

But the corollary to that is that you need to be prepared to take responsibility for the consequences of those actions, if you decide to not follow the rule.

Individuals may be more or less community/society minded in making those decisions. They'll take the consequences from that.
And the organisations/nation can adjust the rules based on the outcomes they get.

Quite, never any need for personal insults:

Bratty
Lazy
A dick

All completely unnecessary.

You and I don't know why the student is taking the time off. We both have interpretations, and these interpretations are reflections of us, aren't they? They aren't fact about the student in the OP.

You have decided, on the basis of the OP, the actions mean the student is bratty, lazy, disrespectful, dossing in bed. I have decided they are intelligent, creative, self aware, involved in self-care and are likely to succeed in life.

We all create the view of the world we want, even in our own thoughts, don't we? Thinking can be a revolutionary act and certainly the start point for all revolutionary acts is thought.

You think some schools would deem signing in to site unnecessary? Do you not really know the era you live in and the health and safety laws that have to be abided by! There's laws about signing people in and out of sites so that the fire brigade knows if any one is missing and unaccounted for and maybe trapped / dying somewhere! When I was at school you were signed in by the form tutor in the morning and again at the first class after dinner. Don't assume anything about any school!

I'm not over reacting, I'm H&S for a living so I know about compliance! I find your congratulating of rule breaking kids just bizarre! You are talking skiving school and nobody knowing where they are or what they are doing until they get there! It's irresponsible to encourage kids to skive school and be hanging around the streets. But you see them as heroes and the kids that turn up and learn on time as something you don't like and that shouldn't be followed.

@FlyMeSomewhere

You're reading an awful lot of things which I didn't say and do not think into what I actually wrote. And not reading what I actually did write.

You also seem to be reading lots into the OP's post about things which their child is not doing.

No-one except you has mentioned anything about hanging around on streets, OP knows perfectly well where they are as they're spending the extra time having a lie in, and the OP's child is not missing class, they're simply missing form and possibly assembly, whilst achieving very well in their classes.
I've already addressed the fire point, which you are apparently (willfully?) misunderstanding.

You crack on, not going to get into it with you.