To finally agree with a junior doctors strike

[Horsehow]

Junior doctors have decided to strike as they are being overlooked for jobs / training posts which are instead given to international applicants. I’ve always abhorred their money grabbing strikes in the past, but support this one 100%. UK doctors should be recruited where possible, and international graduates only turned to where we cannot find a suitable recruit in the UK.

They should hang their heads in shame.

Blue line= number of jobs. Yellow =number of applicants. Doctors are paid £17.33 an hour at 2am on Xmas day. They earn more in Scotland and now Wales.

Why? If they are so important why are so many of them not going to have jobs next year?

The government has already told them they are unneeded and unwanted.

I work in a GP surgery and I cannot believe they only get paid £14 ph!

I assume @PropertyD is referring to the people organising the hiring system. Not the junior doctors

You might not be saying that when you or a loved one are being treated by a locum who has not worked fro the NH S for long and does not understand how it works. They may not have the experience to be a consultant but be covering a consultant post.

Before the strikes they did. Now it's £17.33 starting. They asked for £20 an hour.

100% support the resident doctors the DoH need to get the finger out and do what they promised re home graduates .

GPs earn more obviously as they are 5-7 years post qualification.

Why are international applicants recruited ahead of UK applicants? Is there some rationale to it? It doesn't make any sense... Especially as I feel like we have a very unique healthcare system compared to the rest of the world, and I imagine UK doctors/medical graduates would be trained specifically in accordance to our system.

Edit to add that my last sentence is an assumption I made and so happy to be corrected if wrong.

The politicians ? I agree

Well if they have no opportunities created to progress to become GPs, surgeons, physicians or any other specialities that we are crying out for to help reduce those on waiting lists and ensure patients get care they need, I am not sure they should be hanging their heads in shame. Especially as they have to fund their own exams and study to get these further qualifications to do so, after having racked up 1000s from their student loans. They are expected to compete not just across all of the UK with other candidates to get a training place but all international applicants too, plus if successful be prepared to move anywhere in the UK, at short notice, to fill the post offered. This is regardless of where their partners or children need to be, or if they are paying a mortgage for where they were previously living. If they are given hospital accommodation for where they are relocated to, they also pay for that. England doctors are paid less than those in Scotland, they at least deserve the same, so not sure they should hang their heads in shame

You get very senior overseas doctors applying for entry-level uk posts “to get their foot in the door”. And obviously a consultant with 20 years’ experience will outcompete a brand new junior doctor in interview - how could they not?

The net effect of the shortage of training places is to massively reduce the inflated hourly rates that were being paid for temporary shifts - no bad thing.

Also, for anyone with time to spare, please see the previous umpteen threads on this same subject of shortage of training places. The upshot of which was that certain posters with a non medical background were absolutely hammered by a posse of consultants who introduced some necessary depth to the issue.

It is disgusting that this is allowed. If applying for surgical training you start to lose points on Oriel once you have done more than I think 2 or 2.5 years of surgical jobs. How do they get jobs with 20+ years experience to get their foot in the door?

It’s not in the least disgusting that senior doctors from other countries are prepared to take a demotion in order to pursue a better life for themselves and their families. That’s a shameful statement.

No wonder the NHS is in such a state with those "consultants" and their hidden agendas.

How can you tell if anyone is a doctor or not?
Most doctors do not broadcast their profession on mumsnet.

Can you point us towards the evidence that proves NHSE roles are going to international applicants please? I've just read around this in various sources and can't see any references to this being about foreign applicants. Without the evidence, your post is in danger of looking like yet more extreme right wing, Farage driven hate. I hope that's not the case.

Most of the posters who gave you incredibly short shrift on all the previous threads were very open in saying that they were consultants.

I don’t think I misunderstood anything. You don’t like the fact that decisions are based on merit. This system makes sense economically. Far too many UK students are enrolling in medical schools due to standards of entry being reduced. Those same students seem to think that that will guarantee a smooth upwards trajectory regardless of the competition. More fool them.

@HoskinsChoice this is last year. And I despise Farage. But we are the inky country in the world that does not give priority to its home trained doctors (wherever they are from )

My contributions on the previous threads were less bald than those of a good clutch of consultants who were giving their opinions based on years of professional experience rather than from the biased perspective of a disappointed mother of a medical student (however understandable on an emotional basis that bias might be).