To finally agree with a junior doctors strike

[Horsehow]

Junior doctors have decided to strike as they are being overlooked for jobs / training posts which are instead given to international applicants. I’ve always abhorred their money grabbing strikes in the past, but support this one 100%. UK doctors should be recruited where possible, and international graduates only turned to where we cannot find a suitable recruit in the UK.

Not even GPs?

IMGs have an advantage over F2s that have been doctors less than 2 years..

@Marbles10 it's ridiculous. How anyone can think it's not a problem is beyond me

I’m sure you do. That’s why I’m asking questions :)
I haven’t made up my mind on the strikes and want to know why there is a shortage of jobs when the NHS obviously needs more doctors to meet the demand.

The job market is dreadful for all graduates thanks to The Boris Wave.

This is fuelling a lot of unrest and concerned about the future

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice hopefully we have helped show you the issue. So many applicants for so few jobs. 13,000 speciality posts, 12,000 UKGs. Should be easy. Yet we have unemployed GPs and F2s. Whilst waiting lists are 7 million +.

This isn’t true!

starting salary for an F1 is £38,831 basic which is £19 an hour. They then get extra for out of hours and can pick up extra bank shifts at higher rates. I would assume the £17.33 is in addition so almost double time for Christmas Day - but my hospital pays more than that. There is a rate card but many hospitals pay different to that due to retention needs.
F2 gets £44,439 basic pay and it jumps up each year. F1s are first years so are very much learning and the pay reflects that.

The lack of training positions is a massive issue though, so I agree that needs sorting.

And around 20000 IMGs applying as well

It is not the lack of training places that is the problem. It is the amount of IMGs applying for Specialty Training.

I absolutely support their right to campaign for fair pay and treatment.

They wouldn't have to strike if the government negotiated.

I bet 90% are AI bollocks too.

The crazy thing is we can’t find specialists and are struggling to recruit so I don’t understand where the disconnect is.

I think some of the bad job market is due to automation replacing a lot of jobs.
Like think who will be out of work when the NHS App does all the appointment letters?

Why should UK/EU candidates get preferential treatment at all? Just as I’m happy to compete against the best globally in my profession (and prepared to move overseas if needed), I’m also very happy the UK can still recruit world-class doctors from across the globe.

There are 93 countries that protect their own medical graduates. The UK is the outlier since January 2021

Sorry this must be a joke.@mumsneedwine nightshift.

I always thought Wes Streeting must be on drugs to think he can cut NHS jobs.

And also virtually every other country in the world massively prioritises their own citizens for medical training posts. Can’t get a job in your home country? Apply to the UK. It’s not like other graduate jobs where overseas candidates have the world the choose from, they have their country, the UK and very few other offers.

Completely agree. Why has the UK become the specialist medical training academy of the world?

I totally do not support their ridiculous whining over pay. Yes the starting salary is poor but 10 years in and they’re in the top 10% of earners. If they have a training post, and only the very poor UK candidates (say bottom10%) should be denied a training post.

@Janesmom say you are a junior teacher/accountant/engineer/coder looking for your next job so you can develop and learn new skills so you apply for junior accountancy/engineering/it jobs but every single job has hundreds of Professors/CFO/COO/CIOs applying. They are massively over qualified for those jobs and it means the normal progression for juniors to develop into seniors just isn't there.

Love the Janet and John explanation. I think it was very much needed.

Some of these jobs- esp accounting and coding are being replaced by automation software and machine learning self-coding AI.

Many of the overqualified could have been let go and have had to drop from £100k+ jobs to try for any job. Entire professions have gone and are going extinct.

Absolute nonsense. I have not said anything at all ‘dreadful’ about UK med school graduates. If I have, be my guest and repost. You won’t only because you can’t.

They have extremely fair pay when you add in the bits and bobs.

Other things are wanting in terms of conditions but pay is perfectly reasonable for the level of seniority in the public sector.