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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

“We need to stop importing people who hate us”

186 replies

OneAmusedShark · 03/10/2025 21:13

Overheard an older couple of Caribbean couple talking about the Manchester attack on the train earlier and one of
them used this phrase.

Someone else (who was getting off at the time) shouted at them “You can’t say that! It’s hate speech!”

I didn’t get involved.

Was it hate speech?

OP posts:
YorkshireGoldDrinker · 05/10/2025 14:05

No, because it's the truth. But also yes, because the truth is often noticed as part of pattern recognition, and we all know the act of merely noticing things is considered a form of hate these days.

Is it hate speech? No. Is it legally hate speech? Probably, yes.

Ddakji · 05/10/2025 14:10

LidlAmaretto · 05/10/2025 13:43

No. You are misunderstanding regionalism in countries like India and Pakistan. They are huge, huge countries with massive class and ethnic differences. Anyone from Pakistan would be able to tell you where the people with the most problematic attitudes and beliefs are likely from. Same in India. There is a massive cultural difference between people brought up in rural villages in the middle of India and the educated middle classes who live in the cities. She is saying that if people move to a different country then they cannot be expected to keep belief systems from their village in India and expect it to be tolerated here, because certain parts of that that belief system shouldn't even be tolerated in India, never mind here.

Genuine question - how many (or perhaps how likely is it) people from rural villages in either Pakistan or India, who hold these views, end up emigrating to the UK? It seems to me that you’ve got to have been able to save up a fair amount of money, as well as being pretty go-getting, to make such a move.

FrauPaige · 05/10/2025 14:48

LidlAmaretto · 05/10/2025 13:43

No. You are misunderstanding regionalism in countries like India and Pakistan. They are huge, huge countries with massive class and ethnic differences. Anyone from Pakistan would be able to tell you where the people with the most problematic attitudes and beliefs are likely from. Same in India. There is a massive cultural difference between people brought up in rural villages in the middle of India and the educated middle classes who live in the cities. She is saying that if people move to a different country then they cannot be expected to keep belief systems from their village in India and expect it to be tolerated here, because certain parts of that that belief system shouldn't even be tolerated in India, never mind here.

I understand those regions very well, actually. How do you suggest an immigration system can work based on @Crowde stated positions? What of what she says is usable to form policy? How does it differ to current immigration policy?How much of it is simply jolly nice to hear for flag wavers?

JamieCannister · 05/10/2025 14:54

FrauPaige · 05/10/2025 14:48

I understand those regions very well, actually. How do you suggest an immigration system can work based on @Crowde stated positions? What of what she says is usable to form policy? How does it differ to current immigration policy?How much of it is simply jolly nice to hear for flag wavers?

I think that as a country we need to be clear what our values are, and do our best to deport anyone who we can who does not share our values.

Our values - classical liberalism (ie, do what you like, unless it harms others), politeness, rule of law, capitalism (but with a safety net for the unlucky), tolerance (but not of intolerant people), freedom of speech, don't marry close family (just because the royals do it doesn't mean it's British)

SpiritAdder · 05/10/2025 14:59

Crowde · 03/10/2025 22:51

I think we need to be honest about a difficult reality…many parts of the world hold values and societal norms that are fundamentally incompatible with those of the UK. I would love to believe that every human being is inherently good, but that simply isn’t true. In far too many societies, practices like child marriage and the routine abuse of women are not just tolerated but normalised. These views are upheld, not by fringe extremists, but by ordinary people.

It is not acceptable for those attitudes to be imported here. We have fought too hard and come too far in terms of women’s rights to allow misogynistic norms to take root in our society. Men who have been socialised in environments where violence and subjugation of women are everyday realities should not be given free rein to bring those mindsets into this country.

I say this as a British Sikh woman. I am not islamaphobic nor am I seeking approval by appeasing anyone (as I am often accused of when I share my views online).

And quite frankly, I am tired of the middle class tendency to posture and virtue signal under the guise of compassion. This superficial moralism may make some people feel enlightened, but it does nothing to protect women.

Edited

You could start a petition to keep those gun culture, forced birth, child marriage, wife & child beating Americans in the USA where they belong?

SquirrelosaurusSoShiny · 05/10/2025 15:02

Crowde · 03/10/2025 22:51

I think we need to be honest about a difficult reality…many parts of the world hold values and societal norms that are fundamentally incompatible with those of the UK. I would love to believe that every human being is inherently good, but that simply isn’t true. In far too many societies, practices like child marriage and the routine abuse of women are not just tolerated but normalised. These views are upheld, not by fringe extremists, but by ordinary people.

It is not acceptable for those attitudes to be imported here. We have fought too hard and come too far in terms of women’s rights to allow misogynistic norms to take root in our society. Men who have been socialised in environments where violence and subjugation of women are everyday realities should not be given free rein to bring those mindsets into this country.

I say this as a British Sikh woman. I am not islamaphobic nor am I seeking approval by appeasing anyone (as I am often accused of when I share my views online).

And quite frankly, I am tired of the middle class tendency to posture and virtue signal under the guise of compassion. This superficial moralism may make some people feel enlightened, but it does nothing to protect women.

Edited

This. I'm disgusted at some of the views and behaviours we have pandered to, in terror of being accused of racism. The Rotherham rapists a prime example. I see so many leftist luvvies weeping for 'poor, brave, vulnerable 6ft transwomen' but not a word of support for the actual biological women of Afghanistan who are living in a medieval hell. Shame on the bastards who have turned their backs on women all over the world because it's more important to virtue signal than do good.

canchewcashew · 05/10/2025 15:03

Not sure how to vote. It's not hate speech, though. It's nothing more or less than common sense.

SpiritAdder · 05/10/2025 15:05

Has anyone thought that perhaps these migrants came first with hope of better life and acceptance, but then the reality of the xenophobic hostility they experienced after emigrating to the UK caused a few to feel hatred?

FrauPaige · 05/10/2025 15:17

JamieCannister · 05/10/2025 14:54

I think that as a country we need to be clear what our values are, and do our best to deport anyone who we can who does not share our values.

Our values - classical liberalism (ie, do what you like, unless it harms others), politeness, rule of law, capitalism (but with a safety net for the unlucky), tolerance (but not of intolerant people), freedom of speech, don't marry close family (just because the royals do it doesn't mean it's British)

So, go and tell @Crowde that although she makes you feel good, you are going to have to vet her dad, uncles and brothers to make sure they are alright because at a helicopter level they are up for the chop.

Are the women ok?

FrauPaige · 05/10/2025 15:21

SquirrelosaurusSoShiny · 05/10/2025 15:02

This. I'm disgusted at some of the views and behaviours we have pandered to, in terror of being accused of racism. The Rotherham rapists a prime example. I see so many leftist luvvies weeping for 'poor, brave, vulnerable 6ft transwomen' but not a word of support for the actual biological women of Afghanistan who are living in a medieval hell. Shame on the bastards who have turned their backs on women all over the world because it's more important to virtue signal than do good.

You've got quite a lot squeezed into that one. Racism, Rotherham, trans, virtue signalling, leftists - Bravo!

Bananadramaa · 05/10/2025 15:23

SquirrelosaurusSoShiny · 05/10/2025 15:02

This. I'm disgusted at some of the views and behaviours we have pandered to, in terror of being accused of racism. The Rotherham rapists a prime example. I see so many leftist luvvies weeping for 'poor, brave, vulnerable 6ft transwomen' but not a word of support for the actual biological women of Afghanistan who are living in a medieval hell. Shame on the bastards who have turned their backs on women all over the world because it's more important to virtue signal than do good.

Where do you see this? How do you know the lefties luuvies as you call them are not also supportive of Afghan women? Did they say this to you? Did they say “I am supportive of trans women, but don’t care about it Afghan women”???

SpottyAardvark · 05/10/2025 15:29

Not ‘hate speech’.

Common sense.

OneDearWasp · 05/10/2025 15:50

SpottyAardvark · 05/10/2025 15:29

Not ‘hate speech’.

Common sense.

Agree it's not hate speech. Common sense of the shallow variety though. That's if it is literally meant that NO-ONE who "hates us" should be "imported".

The Manchester attacker came here as a child and grew up with a father who is a trauma surgeon and who has quickly disowned him and his views. Seems likely that any kind of system for checking the family's desireability as incomers would have given a trained doctor the green light. The only way to make sure absolutely no-one arrives who hates us is to not allow ANYONE to arrive.

Sjkeb · 05/10/2025 17:07

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 16:58

You can’t but a good idea is which country they’re from. After waging war on Iraq for years, killing a million citizens, and destroying its cities and infrastructure, do you think they:

a) Love Britain
b) Hate Britain?

Edited

This is a very poor rule to go by. I know and work with various Iraqis and all have made positive lives in the UK. The psychiatrist in my team is Iraqi. There are good people in every country.

JHound · 05/10/2025 17:10

OneDearWasp · 05/10/2025 15:50

Agree it's not hate speech. Common sense of the shallow variety though. That's if it is literally meant that NO-ONE who "hates us" should be "imported".

The Manchester attacker came here as a child and grew up with a father who is a trauma surgeon and who has quickly disowned him and his views. Seems likely that any kind of system for checking the family's desireability as incomers would have given a trained doctor the green light. The only way to make sure absolutely no-one arrives who hates us is to not allow ANYONE to arrive.

This.

Such a simplistic viewpoint by the allegedlY “old Caribbean couple’.

JHound · 05/10/2025 17:11

YorkshireGoldDrinker · 05/10/2025 14:05

No, because it's the truth. But also yes, because the truth is often noticed as part of pattern recognition, and we all know the act of merely noticing things is considered a form of hate these days.

Is it hate speech? No. Is it legally hate speech? Probably, yes.

“Pattern recognition” - my dogs ears are bleeding.

OneAmberFinch · 05/10/2025 17:41

Ddakji · 05/10/2025 14:10

Genuine question - how many (or perhaps how likely is it) people from rural villages in either Pakistan or India, who hold these views, end up emigrating to the UK? It seems to me that you’ve got to have been able to save up a fair amount of money, as well as being pretty go-getting, to make such a move.

Have you heard of a place called Mirpur...?

Ddakji · 05/10/2025 17:42

OneAmberFinch · 05/10/2025 17:41

Have you heard of a place called Mirpur...?

No, I haven’t.

LidlAmaretto · 05/10/2025 17:53

They are a large proportion of Pakistani Muslims

Most of the Rotherham grooming gangs, the problems with integration, cousin marriages etc come from this particular community. They were encouraged to come to the UK to work in the textile factories and due to cousin marriages and girls being sent back to Pakistan ( often girls barely 16 and sometimes against their will) to be married to cousins etc and being brought back to the UK

LidlAmaretto · 05/10/2025 17:56

Ignore my link title. I cant change it but its just a link to an article

LidlAmaretto · 05/10/2025 17:58

OneDearWasp · 05/10/2025 15:50

Agree it's not hate speech. Common sense of the shallow variety though. That's if it is literally meant that NO-ONE who "hates us" should be "imported".

The Manchester attacker came here as a child and grew up with a father who is a trauma surgeon and who has quickly disowned him and his views. Seems likely that any kind of system for checking the family's desireability as incomers would have given a trained doctor the green light. The only way to make sure absolutely no-one arrives who hates us is to not allow ANYONE to arrive.

Except now his views have been revealed and it looks like some people from his family have been arrested on terrorism charges.

OneDearWasp · 05/10/2025 18:24

LidlAmaretto · 05/10/2025 17:58

Except now his views have been revealed and it looks like some people from his family have been arrested on terrorism charges.

How intriguing. Maybe his (whoever he is) views will be shared by someone with with more knowledge.

All I know is the family condemned his actions and two people initially arrested have been released with no charge while a few others are still being questioned.

RingoJuice · 05/10/2025 18:34

JHound · 05/10/2025 17:11

“Pattern recognition” - my dogs ears are bleeding.

Well JHound, when a particular group is disproportionately involved in antisocial behaviors, we tend to notice. Even when we can’t say it (due to social pressure or indeed lack of free speech), we still know it. You know it too, deep down.

RingoJuice · 05/10/2025 18:38

SpiritAdder · 05/10/2025 14:59

You could start a petition to keep those gun culture, forced birth, child marriage, wife & child beating Americans in the USA where they belong?

Funny how you can say this about America, but say this kind of shit about a developing country and somebody will have your post yanked for ‘racism’

OneAmberFinch · 05/10/2025 18:46

You might find it interesting to read about the history of British Mirpuris - the majority of British people of Pakistani descent are ultimately from this area, which is a rural conservative area where, e.g., kinship bonds are considered extremely important, cousin marriage is quite common, and your loyalty is to your "clan" rather than a higher nation-state. In the UK this sometimes (not always but disproportionately) translates to e.g. clan based voting or protecting your cousin from the law.

Why is this interesting? Because to @FrauPaige 's question, this knowledge should affect how we run immigration policy.

For example, one proposal I have heard for restricting immigration is that we need to have stricter limits on people coming here on work visas, but any British person should have the right to bring their spouse over ("the one they love") without income limits.

Pakistan is by far one of the top countries for spouse visas, and for the historic reasons mentioned above, in practice this is very often people bringing in relatives from Mirpur & surrounding rural regions, because kin is so important.

It should be obvious that this is the opposite of integration. The reason there are income limits at all is to try to restrict this effect somewhat. It's not because the government thinks it's a problem for a junior nurse to fall in love with an Aussie bartender or something.

So the question is: should the above context be taken into account when setting immigration policy? e.g., rejecting the policy proposal above? Or should we pretend we don't know this?

British Mirpuris - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mirpuris