“We need to stop importing people who hate us”

[OneAmusedShark]

Overheard an older couple of Caribbean couple talking about the Manchester attack on the train earlier and one of
them used this phrase.

Someone else (who was getting off at the time) shouted at them “You can’t say that! It’s hate speech!”

I didn’t get involved.

Was it hate speech?

The potential "hatey" bit, I guess, is saying that the "people who hate us" only come from a group of "imported" people. I think sadly the people who hate others have been here among us for a long time. Muslims don't want to bring down the West, white men arent rapists, Jewish people arent genocidal anti-Palestinians, lonely disaffected young men aren't all incel murderers, etc etc. Yes there are people who are those awful things and also fall into those demographic groups. But they are horrible people anyway.

The way to stop all those horrible things isn't to just stop immigration. The ways to stop those terrible things, including hatred between groups, are complex, multi faceted, need lots of different economic, social, environmental, psychological solutions across the world.

I wouldn't call it hate speech but I think it's reductive.

Gerald Kaus on the Rest is Politics podcast explains how to stop the boats.

“We’ve had free speech in this country for a very, very long time.”

-Keir Starmer

Did he forget that after the flag flying demos

People aren’t pretending that there’s not a problem with home grown rape and abuse.

we know absolutely there is, but unfortunately there is no option to exile those British born rapists and child abusers that live amongst us.

That doesn’t mean we should ignore those people about whom we can do something.

men who have raped, abused or committed violence before coming to the UK should not be permitted to stay. Those who do it whilst they are here on visas should be deported.

Well said. These are the typical reasons why those "left-wing" "liberal" middle classes that support it do so:

1. they are racist bigots that rarely mix with people of other races and cultures and through non mixing and isolating themselves from others to themselves they have almost no deep knowledge of many cultures based on and how people live and think - while ironically calling those who have better knowledge of them or live among them racist.
2. they are evil, controlling people that do want detriment to others
3. they are stupid and naive, with little to no critical thinking.
4. mix of the above

Its not hate speech to not.want 1000s of undocumented young men being put up in hotels, free food, medical and dental care, whose rights appear to trump those of the people who are having to bankroll this shit show

What’s his main take on it?

Of course it’s true. I’m glad that people are more open with how it really is now. ‘Importing’ pretty much describes the situation well…

Yes there is but it's overrepresented (more likely) to be in cultures routed in deep mysoginy, subjugation and control by males. Why have something that's even more evil.

I agree. I was living in London and Bristol during the IRA attacks but it didn't make me hate all Irish people.

It's not racist to discuss immigration but it is racist to say 'they all hate this country' or 'they are all paedophiles' because people with a particular ethnicity are not all the same. The people you overheard might have forgotten (or weren't yet born) that in the 70s there were some people who said that all West Indian males were muggers and pimps. It's stereotyping at the very least, probably not hate speech unless they are advocating violence towards them.

In theory you’re right. It needs intervention globally to address all these issues, but the reality is it would be impossible to do that. Misogyny and other associated values adopted by many countries is learned behaviour, ingrained from birth. It’s normalised, and bringing into the UK an adult man who has grown with these values, it would be nigh on impossible to wipe out all the years when he has grown up surrounded by people who practice those behaviours, and turn him into someone else.

It’s not hate speech as it’s not specific to any particular group, just a sentiment that many agree with however we need to remember that this person was a British citizen and of late at least we have had issues with British born terrorists and/or brought by parents as dc, online radicalisation can happen to any ethnicity or background. Those who work with teens and young adults are acutely aware of the risks of radicalisation, a friend of mine runs a madrasah and he says that the thought of one of his former students being turned into a terrorist keeps him awake at night, despite him running a very moderate, modern madrasah and teaching them the peaceful way

The demos that actually happened, and where people were allowed to speak freely you mean?

Jackanory is all inclusive now it's moved on from the early days of Janet and John and the all White's family and friends.👍😁

🤣

Nowhere did I mention Islam, nor did I single out any particular religion. Accusing me for targeting Muslims is a great way to obfuscate and derail the discussion though. My concern is about values and attitude people are raised with and whether those norms align with the standards we expect in the UK.

I personally wouldn’t want to see people immigrating en masse from the central strip of India which is a region that remains deeply patriarchal and where women are often treated appallingly. That isn’t an attack on Indians, it’s a recognition of the reality that some areas are still socially regressive and resistant to change.

My point is simple: it’s naive to think that people who have been socialised in environments where women are systematically devalued can just arrive here and immediately adopt liberal, egalitarian values. Cultural conditioning doesn’t dissolve at border control. And pretending otherwise is both dishonest and dangerous.

If someone, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh or otherwise, holds backward, misogynistic views, they have no place coming to the UK.

Agree entirely with these statements

I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments. All I'm raising is the issue that certain politicians and segments of the media would like to make out that this is a foreign issue.

Last year, over 30% of men arrested for taking part in the riots had convictions for domestic violence and in one city it was 68%. A lot of the thugs who claim to be standing up for women and girls are abusers themselves.

Agree. We need to be far more intolerant of the intolerant if we are to keep people safe. It's all fine saying ' all beliefs are equal' when you are not having your vote stolen, being banned from learning English or leaving the house, in marriages where you have no rights, being married to some loser, have been subject to fgm yet you are a British citizen. Just because some well meaning lefties have decided they are all equal 'cultural differences' and won't do anything to protect you.

We pretty much hate ourselves in Britain anyway. I mean no one would vote for Reform if they didn’t hate their country and themselves!

South East Asia refers to Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia etc.
South Asia is the Indian subcontinent, the region containing India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Pictures or it didn’t happen.

Why the fuck should I ‘swear allegiance’ to some old bloke who’s never done a days work in his life… lives a completely pampered life thanks to the tax payers… cheated on his wife, doesn’t speak to his son and has his very own loo seat flown around the world so he doesn’t have to put his arse where commoners might have been???
Is this classed as hate speech?

Thank you for the confirmation.

So, you think your family shouldn't be here?