“We need to stop importing people who hate us”

[OneAmusedShark]

Overheard an older couple of Caribbean couple talking about the Manchester attack on the train earlier and one of
them used this phrase.

Someone else (who was getting off at the time) shouted at them “You can’t say that! It’s hate speech!”

I didn’t get involved.

Was it hate speech?

No one is saying rape and abuse commited by white guys is ok though, this is how the narrative is getting spinned. It is men in general that commit most of these crimes, however bringing more men that come from a country where it is more culturally/religiously accepted to abuse and subjugate women will of course make things worse, add to this that a lot of them come here illegally and there is no record of whether they have previous history of violence, it's the perfect storm. No one is saying they are ok with crimes where the perpetrators are white.

I really don’t know know what u r trying to achieve. You are calling me all sorts of names. You’re a strange one, probably with an axe to grind but unsure how to use the grinder.

im truly frightened what is happening in this country in the future, and it doesn’t help when people like you haven’t actually got a grasp on anything, and just resort to name cslling

I'm an immigrant & I don't think they said anything wrong. While I wouldn't have phrased it like that, I'd broadly agree. It's so exhausting watching things get worse for immigrants generally because of a small minority enmeshed in cultures with completely different values. We're heading for a Reform government and endless hassle for millions of completely harmless immigrants because the Guardian is afraid to acknowledge that a bloke from Sudan doesn't have the same attitudes to women as a bloke from Norway. We're going to end up taking no asylum seekers at all because Progressives won't admit that the current asylum system rewards total chancers.

How can it be hate speech? No particular race or nationality was named and it's an obvious statement of common sense surely.

It's like you've used the "uno reverse" card. Good DARVO though 👏

You are just putting words in my mouth and you know that.

To add, it was you who brought in the mi5 and terrorism stuff. I was writing about the initial point of the post as in people who hate this country. I didn’t mention terrorism as not everyone who hates this country is a terrorist. So you’ve jumped on my post and decided to introduce a separate issue and then done so in a really ungracious, mocking way. Anyway, in terms of who hates this country, I do think people’s posts and allegiances say a lot. I don’t think that’s to be conflated with mi5 and I also don’t think my post was something so open for your mockery. That’s all I’ll say to you.

How do you get that from what she said?

Well I certainly wouldn’t be fighting to preserve Charlie boy and his bunch of inbreds!

What do you think is worth defending?

I think we should all ( including and maybe especially The Monarch) should be swearing allegiance to the country. Instead of 'inviting' everyone to swear allegiance to him during his coronation KC should have sworn allegiance to us.

She believes that men socialised in countries where women are subjugated shouldn't be here:
"Men who have been socialised in environments where violence and subjugation of women are everyday realities should not be given free rein to bring those mindsets into this country."

She confirmed that gender inequality is pronounced in South Asia and specifically India:
"I personally wouldn’t want to see people immigrating en masse from the central strip of India which is a region that remains deeply patriarchal and where women are often treated appallingly. That isn’t an attack on Indians, it’s a recognition of the reality that some areas are still socially regressive and resistant to change."

And she is explicit, stating:
"If someone, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh or otherwise, holds backward, misogynistic views, they have no place coming to the UK."

She is British Indian.
"I say this as a British Sikh woman"

Therefore her family - grandfathers, father, uncles, male cousins, and brothers (if first generation naturalised Britons) should not be here, in her opinion.

Clear enough?

Not clear at all. Her critique is about specific regions and cultures ("the central strip of India" was her example), not countries. India is famously a country with very extreme class and cultural differences within its borders.

I don't know about her specific circumstances but with her specifically being Sikh I think it's hard to draw the conclusion you're drawing.

Stirring up trouble, OP. I wonder which party that could be?

Did the other passengers clap?

I think the phrase you are looking for is ‘I don’t know’. But it’s a real question - what is a country and what about it is so real and so important we would fight for it?

Hate speech?? What the heck? They're absolutely right.

I'm not sure what your point is and I am not convinced that you are either

I kind of love that. I think the thinking behind swearing to the monarchy is that the two things are the same - like commutative sums? But yes, it’s just making it explicit that our values include peace and tolerance and stability and respect for the laws of the country we live in and we are universally sworn to those things.

You're saying that because PP is of Indian Sikh origin, and is critical of mass migration from the misogynistic conservative "central strip of India", she is somehow hypocritical.

I'm really generalising and as I said I don't know her personal circumstances, but Sikhs a) don't tend to be from that region and b) culturally aren't really similar to people from that region, which is why I thought it was odd that you're talking about all Indians (including her family) when she's talking about that specific region.

I have close fellow-immigrant friends who are Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Jewish etc... who are extremely well-integrated and in good jobs and fitting in well into Britain... what do they have in common? They all come from a) relatively liberal countries to start with and b) were raised with at least some exposure to western values e.g. being middle class Indians who went on holiday to the US or who went to international schools etc. I agree with PP you can't grow up in a mountain village run by warlords and suddenly expect to flourish in 21st century UK, and it's bizarre that we think people can.

Another Sikh here and I agree. Jihads dad clearly routinely posted stuff that indicated some alarming views. The manchester bombers parents were asylum seekers, dad was a known islamist yet was given asylum in the UK. We have hamas members living in the uk in council housing for godsake. It’s ridiculous that we don’t see these things as a bar to becoming resident in the UK.

If someone supports any kind of terrorism or intolerance towards others or extreme views on women and gay people, I don’t care if they are Muslim, Sikh, Christian etc etc I don’t want to have to share space with them.

Also I don’t want anyone hiding behind my skirts here, I’m not going to defend people who look vaguely similar to me incase I get targeted. Wrong is wrong. If you think forced marriage, FGM, child marriage, control over your wife, antisemitism is fine then thats on you. I’m not responsible for your dire beliefs and I don’t want to be force teamed with people I despise because we share a skin colour.

This. Im not sure who people think asylum seekers from the Middle East are mostly trying to escape from, or who they think is trying to kill them. Its mostly Jihadists trying to kill Kurds/ other Muslim sects/non Muslims/Gay people that they have had to escape from. Not 'Western Imperialists'. How do they think these people feel to have them turn up next door to them after they thought they had escaped them?

No. You are misunderstanding regionalism in countries like India and Pakistan. They are huge, huge countries with massive class and ethnic differences. Anyone from Pakistan would be able to tell you where the people with the most problematic attitudes and beliefs are likely from. Same in India. There is a massive cultural difference between people brought up in rural villages in the middle of India and the educated middle classes who live in the cities. She is saying that if people move to a different country then they cannot be expected to keep belief systems from their village in India and expect it to be tolerated here, because certain parts of that that belief system shouldn't even be tolerated in India, never mind here.

This is why Pakistanis don’t have a particularly bad reputation in the states—they are mostly doctors or other professionals. (It’s illegals from South and Central America that have a bad reputation in the states)