To think that if you commit a male crime, you should do male time, even if you identify as a woman?

[TheAvidAmberPeer]

I know this is a sensitive topic but I’ve been thinking about how justice systems handle trans women who commit serious crimes, especially violent or sexual offences, and whether it’s fair to house them in women’s prisons. To me, if you were born male and commit a crime typically associated with male offenders, particularly one involving violence against women, it seems like common sense that you should serve time in a male facility. Identity doesn’t erase biology or risk in those cases.

AIBU to think fairness and safety, especially for vulnerable female prisoners, should come before ideology?

Then they shouldn’t commit crimes should they? But if they do, they go to the prison appropriate to their sex. They’ll be fine. It’s a mixed gender prison.

Yes, if you want to hold a genuine discussion sticking with scientific facts and not making up imaginary friends, work away.

If you don’t care about the rights of biological girls and women and only want to spout childish nonsense supporting delusional men, Reddit is over there.. ➡️➡️➡️

The level of discourse on this thread is so basic, I’m not surprised that people who question trans women’s presence in female wings of prisons are blanket-labelled as bigots.

So err… go on. Raise tha bar. Explain exactly why a male is a woman and should therefore belong in female prison? You’ll need to show your workings and not rely on sexist outdated stereotypes though.

I haven’t disclosed my own view on the subject on this thread, nor do I intend to. What I am interested in is reasoned debate as opposed to the hectoring, playground-bully type assertions made in online debates such as these. Your own assumption that I must be “on the other side” is evidence of how reactionary you and most of the other posters on this thread are to any view you even perceive as being possibly not the same as yours.

Difficult topics such as this require mature, calm, and well-reasoned arguments if any progress is to be made. You can shout all you like about your opinions but that will not persuade people who hold a different opinion that you are right and they are wrong.

Go on then. I’m positing that no male belongs in a female prison as they are male. What calm, mature and well reasoned arguments can be used to refute that statement?

You’ve made a bare assertion with no reasoning.

Errr why is it a bizarre assertion that no male belongs in female prison. Because they are male and only females should be in female prisons. I await your calm, well reasoned and mature rebuttal.

Have you qouted me in error - I haven't used that term.........dear

Indeed it was a mistake. I was meaning to quote the buffoon pontificating about DSD. Sorry. My bad.

Thanks

Where’s the humanity for women? Males should not be in prison with vulnerable females. Vulnerable males with gender confusions can be kept safe in the male estate with the other vulnerable male prisoners.

This. ^^

Yep, exactly this.
And if anyone isn't happy at the thought of being in what they consider the "wrong" prison for their preferences, then try not doing crimes! That'll solve it every time!

I think even the most basic of intellects must approach this topic from the starting premise that the position of those who believe that trans women should be allowed to be in female prisons is that trans women are women, and therefore not “male”.

Exactly. An overwhelming majority of the population manage not to be incarcerated in prison.

Do the crime do the time in the correct prison for your sex, no ifs, buts, maybes, it's complicated, there should be nuance. The end.

Women are not human shields or validation/socialisation tools for men who claim to be women and under no circumstances should they be used as such by the Prison Authorities/Justice System.

No-one has ever told the women who are incarcerated that the above will be an additional part of their sentence, have they?

And the law explicitly states that transwomen are not women and are indeed male so the position of those who believe that transwomen are women is (1) nonsense and (2) legally incorrect.

Basic intellect is that humans cannot change sex, those who believe otherwise are the ones lacking in any intellect never mind basic.

Wrong. The Supreme Court judgment did not determine that trans women are “male”. It determined that the terms "man" and "woman" in the Equality Act 2010 refer to biological sex. You cannot simply expand the meaning of this judgment to suit your purpose. This is what I mean when I say the arguments on this thread are basic and ill-reasoned.

Not wrong at all, it is you who fails to understand the Supreme Court Judgement.

Yes. If you were born male - mens prison. Gone female? - womens prison - I don’t really care what they suddenly identify as. But this is Mumsnet and it’s insanely woke so you’re going to get all sorts of crazy talk. 😂

I’m a litigation partner in a large law firm. My analysis of the judgment is correct. In case you don’t wish to accept that, here is analysis from another very well respected global law firm, making clear that the judgment relates to the interpretation of biological sex in the context of the Equality Act: knowledge.dlapiper.com/dlapiperknowledge/globalemploymentlatestdevelopments/2025/Supreme-Court-rules-that-meaning-of-man-and-woman-in-Equality-Act-2010-refers-to-biological-sex

The Equality Act covers those incarcerated in prison, or are you claiming it does not?

In reality, that is another way of saying that 'transwomen' are not 'legally' women. We already knew they werent biologically women. So that's covers all angles really.

Shoulders, hips hands and undoubtedly his walk

Once again, I have not expressed any personal view as to whether trans women should or should not be in female prisons wings in prisons. I have participated in this thread to challenge the extremely rudimentary arguments of those, including you, who espouse the view that “trans women are not women”. This debate is far more nuanced than that, as the judgment in the Supreme Court decision illustrates. The court was very clear that its determination related only to the meanings within the Equality Act.

On a related point, given that the judgment has finalised the argument as regards women’s spaces, I question the need for endless further threads on the question of whether or not trans women should or should not be in those spaces. The law has determined the point so there is no need for those on the “winning” side to continue shouting in outrage about the counter-factual position.