To think that if you commit a male crime, you should do male time, even if you identify as a woman?

[TheAvidAmberPeer]

I know this is a sensitive topic but I’ve been thinking about how justice systems handle trans women who commit serious crimes, especially violent or sexual offences, and whether it’s fair to house them in women’s prisons. To me, if you were born male and commit a crime typically associated with male offenders, particularly one involving violence against women, it seems like common sense that you should serve time in a male facility. Identity doesn’t erase biology or risk in those cases.

AIBU to think fairness and safety, especially for vulnerable female prisoners, should come before ideology?

Btw, @tandora,as a parent and sibling to autistic people I find your equation of transwomen, genuine and not, to autistic people extremely offensive.

As a parent of an autistic child (and with autistic family members) myself, you can quite frankly speaking - get over yourself.

Yes of course, people with ASD need to adapt to society, but they should also be allowed to be their authentic neurodivergent selves, and society should adapt to recognise and value different forms of neurodivergence. We have moved far from the days of punishment ABA to prevent stimming etc.

It's an entirely appropriate and helpful comparator for many reasons - particularly as they are both complex neurodevelopmental conditions.

Two major reasons:

1. it's a matter of social justice, and I'm very passionate about social justice issues of all varieties.
2. this issue is of particular importance to me as I have extensive scientific experience in it and it is an issue that is so woefully understood/ misunderstood and getting worse! I have a responsibility to share my knowledge.

No. No males are allowed in allowed in female single sex spaces. That way we keep all the bad actors out. So women feel safer. . And I don’t care if a man claiming to be a woman wants in. Even if that makes him really really sad. Not one male should be in there.
I will have the same sympathy for them as people who minimise women’s distress at having to share their spaces with men have for women.

it's a matter of social justice, and I'm very passionate about social justice issues of all varieties.

Apart from women and girls l.

Nope! As a woman (once girl) myself, with daughters, a mother, a grandmother, nieces, a sister, aunts, etc,) I am also especially passionate about social justice issues affecting women and girls! That's the most personal for me.

I just absolutely reject the use of feminism as a cover, justification, reason to fear, reject and exclude trans people. This simply reinforces patriarchy, increases the conditions for gender based violence and has negative consequences for everyone.

Bollocks.

single sex provisions in the main are in fact policed or at least were until the men found a loophole. Public toilets and changing facilities were policied by social convention, we all knew that men shouldn’t be in them which acted as a deter at to most of the bad ones, now men know that they just have to utter some magic words and everyone will fall over themselves to pretend they’re ok with their presence.

Prisons, rape crisis centres, hospital wards, domestic abuse services and all of those other single sex services and provisions however had clear enforceable rules about not allowing males so males were not allowed in, then came the ‘oh but this male feels more like a woman’ nonsense and the rules blurred and all of a sudden single sex meant single sex except for anyone of the other sex who says they want access because we’re too scared to say no, hurt their feelings and get accused of being mean.

Right. they were policed according to social convention, with trans people using the facilities according to whether they were transitioned or not, also in accordance with those same social conventions. And long may that continue, despite the extraordinary recent manoeuvrings by the Orwellian body that is the EHRC.

Your fake civil rights movement is the least feminist “leftist” movement in my lifetime.

I’ve asked you before, you may have missed, what is the definition of “transitioning” exactly?

Now you are projecting.

i honestly couldn't care less if someone feels they are trans. Most carry on with their lives without the need to try and take others rights away.

I DO care about my rights as a woman being eroded. I DO care that I have the right to single sex spaces. I DO care that women can compete safely in sports. I DO care that I have the right to request same sex health care professionals.

These are basic rights. And trans doesn't trump them.

Someone who has transitioned is someone who has undergone social , legal and/ or medical changes in order to live in accordance with how they understand their sex. e.g. a transwoman may change her name to a conventionally female one, she may start wearing clothes conventionally reserved for women, she may change her sex marker on her legal documents, she may take oestrogen therapies, undergo surgeries etc.

So if a man merely changes his name to a “conventional female one” we are supposed to be ok with him in our female only spaces? Thanks, clarity is appreciated.

Again - these spaces are policed by social conventions.

Social conventions that trans people also adhere to.
Although I know that you think trans people are a bunch or perverted deviants - they really aren't. They are just ordinary people following ordinary social conventions like everyone else.
Trans women don't just 'change their names' and wander nonchalantly into female spaces, that's not how our social conventions work.
Yes there will always be some trans women who never really pass, just as there will always be some very masculine appearing cisgender women. That's life. But as long as we all respect each other, things will be ok.

You have a very odd view of ‘social justice’.

When women are telling you the issues, harms and detriments we face as a direct result of men calling themselves women and society falling over themselves to pretence that’s true, you blithely wave them away and carry on regardless.

Does ‘social justice’ mean choosing your target to promote (in your case men with serious mental health problems and frequently a publicly expressed sexual fetish) and sticking to it regardless of all evidence snd facts?

Maybe one day you will process the truth of what you are doing. One day in the future.

I don’t think all of them are anything, except men.

Clearly according to the doctrine of Tandora and obviously there will be absolutey no problems whatsoever with that.

Words fail me at just how someone can not only believe this stuff but actually voice it.

Men's rights, supremacy on crack. The sheer bloody mindedness misogyny is off the scale, and for what?

It’s extremely disrespectful to women and girls for men and boys to invade their spaces and violate their boundaries. It’s an act of hostility and harassment in and of itself. You’d recognise this if they hadn’t changed their name to Sally or popped on a wig and a skirt.

So if a man doesn’t even bother to shave off his beard but calls himself a woman like Alex Drummond for example, you’re saying he’s not really a woman?

But hold on, weren’t you advocating that women would feel no distress at having to share single sex spaces with trans identified males, and if they did, it was of no importance compared to the distress men would feel at being excluded from those spaces. You even mocked a rape survivor who said if she asked for a female HCP and a male showed up she would be traumatised. You have called women abd girls bigots and transphobes for refusing to say males are women. How exactly are you advocating for women (female in the sense used by same people) and girls?

When women are telling you the issues, harms and detriments we face

Excuse me. You do not speak for "women", you speak for yourself. I am a woman, I care about my rights and my safety.

I know that accepting and including transwomen in society is in no way shape or form a threat to my rights or safety as a woman. This idea is a construction rooted in transphobic fantasies, just as protection of women has been used as a cover for racism and homophobia in the past.

Still not a woman. Still male. Still excluded from female single sex spaces.

She speaks for the majority of women.

What definition of woman are you using though? You’ve said your definition of woman is different from the commonly understood definition.

Good question

Maybe the only women that Tandora recognises are actually men?

Theres some deep self hatred in there I think.