To think that if you commit a male crime, you should do male time, even if you identify as a woman?

[TheAvidAmberPeer]

I know this is a sensitive topic but I’ve been thinking about how justice systems handle trans women who commit serious crimes, especially violent or sexual offences, and whether it’s fair to house them in women’s prisons. To me, if you were born male and commit a crime typically associated with male offenders, particularly one involving violence against women, it seems like common sense that you should serve time in a male facility. Identity doesn’t erase biology or risk in those cases.

AIBU to think fairness and safety, especially for vulnerable female prisoners, should come before ideology?

We've been through this my dear:

my comments / the conversation had nothing to do with rape or rape trauma or surviving rape.

I am not aware- nor required to be aware- nor is it reasonable to expect me to be aware - of the personal background circumstances of all the anonymous users who participate in a conversation with me online.

The conversation had nothing to do with that- it was about the need to speak a few more words to support inclusive language which I know people (with bigoted attitudes) find terribly cumbersome.

Eh?
You've made the claim- so back it up if you can .
It's not for me to disprove every made up thing you decide to post.

No, it is correct.

biologically male. Otherwise he could have been in the female changing rooms And there would have not been a case.

words and their meaning matter. Despite you trying to change their meaning. It's what's keeps us safe.

he said in court that he would treat a patient who specifically asked for a female doctor thereby not obtaining informed consent. That's dangerous and should NEVER be acceptable. And for most it isn't acceptable.

I guess that’s just too bad then. I didn’t claim to have the evidence handy 🤷‍♀️ I just said that was what I remembered.

Oh don't be so silly, Tandora. Dr Upton is not and never ever can be a biological female, because he is male.

Im not "being silly" , I'm explaining the reality of what it is to be a trans woman.

A trans woman is a person who is

identified male at birth,
who has some observable male physical characteristics ,
but who nevertheless recognises/ understands/ knows/ experiences self as female.

This is what being a trans woman is:

Tandora, female people who ask for a female doctor are not 'bigoted' if they would be unhappy with dr Upton rocking up.

As long as transactivists like you do not have an ounce of understanding or sympathy for female people, then this conflict will remain and only escalate further as more and more men will take advantage of the massive loopholes transwomen are currently kicking into the equality treatment of female people

Yeh you've remembered it wrong.

DU is a good doctor. She had problems with a few colleagues on account of being trans.

The point is that you were trying to centre the identity of the male doctor, regardless of the feelings of the female patient, or her reasons for wanting a female doctor. You still have zero empathy for that poster now you know she’s a rape survivor, and tbh I’m fine with you continuing to display this very typical attitude of trans “rights” advocates to readers of this thread, frankly. Hopefully this absurd, misogynistic nonsense will be over sooner the more quickly the unaware wake up.

female people who ask for a female doctor are not 'bigoted' if they would be unhappy with dr Upton rocking up.

I didn't say they were. I said bigoted people get really wound up about having to use inclusive language. That's something entirely different. It was a conversation about language- not a dispute about whether people had a right to request a dr that they felt comfortable with.

And please give over on the "empathy for female people". I'm a female. And my support for trans people very much includes those who you consider to be female as well as those you consider to be male.

I don’t think I have but feel free to prove me wrong 🤷‍♀️

@Tandora most people on this thread and most others you post on see you and your ilk very clearly. Look at the poll. No one is buying it.

But your definition of inclusive language is very different to others people's definition of inclusive. So why should yours be the right one and others bigoted?

It has. It’s been quite the watershed moment. I think many TRAs are baffled by the amount of interest in it. Male NHS doctors saying biological sex is a “nebulous dog whistle” will tend to have that effect I guess. I think the Darlington Nurses tribunal starting this month will be important too.

Sandy Peggie is a normal woman who - perfectly reasonably - does not want to participate in what many women (and men) see as - Upton's fetishistic fantasy.

She shouldn't have to and neither should her colleagues and women elsewhere, who through fear of losing their jobs, are suffering the humiliation of being unwilling participants in his pretence.

It's an absolute scandal that this situation has been allowed to arise. Hopefully, sense will prevail and very soon this ritual humiliation of women in the workplace will end.

A man can never become a woman. Whatever he does to himself. However much he wants to be. And no one should have to pretend he is a woman.

Yes, and I believe women will drag all these institutions kicking and screaming into following the law and what’s right for women and girls.

Inclusive language is communication that avoids words, phrases, or tones that exclude, or stereotype people based on their personal attributes.

My suggestion was to use language sensitive to the fact that some people are trans.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43?reply=145951527?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Found the screenshot of previous problems with dr Upton from the bundle

The good thing is that the Supreme Court has enabled people to be clearer that they know that men are not women, regardless of their claimed identity.

Thank you! Yes, a misgendering complaint about an elderly lady with dementia, allegedly.

And please give over on the "empathy for female people". I'm a female.

But your definition of female seems to come down to ‘anyone who believes themselves to be female’.

How do you know? How could DU know he “felt female”? What frame of reference was he using? Are you going with a nebulous feeling or outdated stereotypes?

So this is an allegation of a circumstance where DU complained to NHS management about lack of support around being called "son" by an elderly patient.

The patient did not complain about DU and her care.

So like claiming a man is a woman because he wears a dress and makeup?

Which is not at all a case of a patient complaining about DU as a doctor.

So does not support your allegation at all/

What do you think should have been done about the elderly woman with dementia?