To think that if you commit a male crime, you should do male time, even if you identify as a woman?

[TheAvidAmberPeer]

I know this is a sensitive topic but I’ve been thinking about how justice systems handle trans women who commit serious crimes, especially violent or sexual offences, and whether it’s fair to house them in women’s prisons. To me, if you were born male and commit a crime typically associated with male offenders, particularly one involving violence against women, it seems like common sense that you should serve time in a male facility. Identity doesn’t erase biology or risk in those cases.

AIBU to think fairness and safety, especially for vulnerable female prisoners, should come before ideology?

I have no idea- presumably nothing. DU was asking for support from management about something she was experiencing at work that was really difficult for her .

It was not a complaint made by a patient about DU's medical practice as you were alleging. by all accounts DU is an excellent doctor.

Oh how sad for him that dementia patients wouldn’t validate his woman identity.

My post. I was refuting the idea that he is an excellent doctor. He isn’t. All I said was that there were problems with him and patients. There were.

He’s quite clearly not suited to this role, to put it more kindly than he deserves.

This wasn't the only post . You said there were problems - I said yeh but not complaints made by patients about her medical care- you said you believed there were .

In any case, regardless of what was said - what is important to understand is that there have been no complaints from patients about DU's medical practice. By all accounts she was an excellent - kind , caring, Dr. Even SP herself acknowledged that on the stand:

If you can find a complaint from a patient I will stand corrected but I have seen no evidence of this.

And you’ve had your answer. No, women will use the precise words we need to. It’s not about what men want. We will be exercising our right to ask for a female doctor for intimate procedures or care and making a formal complaint if a man harasses us by attending us when we’ve made our feelings clear. Upton isn’t female, in any sense. He understands that perfectly well and so do you.

Yeh this is you just not getting it again: it's immaterial.

DU is a good Dr. - Kind and caring to patients. Knowledgeable about medical practice. No complaints about her practice.
She's all of these things and also a transgender woman.

He’s awful.

He understands that perfectly well and so do you.

That is incorrect. Dr U understands herself to be female.

No, he does not. He knows full well.

As I said, the pressure needs to be on Trusts and Health Boards all over the country to train these men that their “identities” do not trump the needs and concerns of female patients or their female colleagues.

These tribunals help with this.

This is incorrect.

You are taking your understanding of DU and assuming DU herself shares that understanding.

She doesn't. Shes told you very clearly under oath , that she doesn't .

DU is a trans woman. She recognises/ understands/ experiences herself as female.

This is what it is to be a trans person. You can refuse, deny, disbelieve, hate it all you want, but it's the reality of trans experience.

He is. And those who claim he is a women despite women saying he’s not know very well he’s not a wo,an, just a man demanding access to places he should not be. I am just confused as to why people are so insistent that these men be allowed in female spaces when women have said it will cause women distress abd trauma. It’s almost like they do not see women as human. In my opinion, those who treat others as subhuman are subhuman themselves. It takes a special kind of callousness to tell a group they do notice the right to define themselves, and cannot even have words to describe themselves

Oh yes and it was good to see Fife were one of the first. DU must be raging.

As which female? How does he know? He is male. How would he know what it feels like to be female? Surely you and he cannot be sexist enough to think all females feel, ack and think the same so if someone follows those sexist stereotypes they are female. It’s 2025, not 1855

This really helpfully clarifies where our thinking diverges, thank you.

I think this would be more accurately written as:

• identified male at birth = born male
• who has some observable male physical characteristics = all of them. Penis, testes. No uterus, vulva, vagina, ovaries, breasts etc
• but who nevertheless recognises/ understands/ knows/ experiences self as female = yet despite the above, they have a 'thought' issue, and to make their own lives easier, wish to negatively impact others to resolve that.

It is only the last sentence which I and many others care about. We hold no hate, no wish to hurt or damage or deny others. But I understand that some of these men feel happier in the role of victim so create untrue stories.

Open to debate, as always

you have replaced my objective / descriptive/ factual and precise language with language that is both vague and seeped in a string of assumptions that are not justified.

This confuses me. How can a male know or experience himself as female? He can only experience himself as his perception of a female. This does not make him female. He still has to use the facilities relevant to his sex.

Darn it! I hoped you would give an answer that showed which bit we disagree on!

Silly me..

But I do wonder why you don't.

Is it point 1, 2 or 3?
Which bit?
Why?

(Lives in hope)

Oh the irony of you lecturing people on unclear language. You use different, nebulous meaning for basic words such as man, woman, male, female and sex. Thst posters words and definitions were perfectly clear. To sane people.

Indeed!

Yes with and oap female patient who had dementia if i remember correctly and had called him son, he accused her after a transphobic hate crime and caused her a whole bunch of other issues around her care

We’ll just to have to agree to disagree @Tandora- I saw his evidence.

Sorry I did intend to respond to you in more detail but was on my phone. This is difficult in a mumsnet post and I have to do productive stuff today lol, but let me give it a quick go.