To think that if you commit a male crime, you should do male time, even if you identify as a woman?

[TheAvidAmberPeer]

I know this is a sensitive topic but I’ve been thinking about how justice systems handle trans women who commit serious crimes, especially violent or sexual offences, and whether it’s fair to house them in women’s prisons. To me, if you were born male and commit a crime typically associated with male offenders, particularly one involving violence against women, it seems like common sense that you should serve time in a male facility. Identity doesn’t erase biology or risk in those cases.

AIBU to think fairness and safety, especially for vulnerable female prisoners, should come before ideology?

Er that's nothing like what I said. You people are truly extraordinary.

Then it’s clearly on NHS Fife either ultimately to terminate his employment if he harasses female patients in this way, or to oblige him to undergo training in consent and single sex facilities and services.

In which case Dr Upton is thick or delusional or both and should not be practising medicine.

However, Dr Upton knows full well that women don't see him as female, and has used the full force of the NHS and the law to try to override their expressed boundaries.

Sandy Peggie's expressed boundary was, "You are male and I don't want to get changed next to you."

Did he respect that boundary?

Did he fuck.

So what in earth makes you think that a man who does not respect his female colleagues' clearly stated boundaries will be any better at respecting his female patients' clearly stated boundaries?

Well, don't, if nothing comes to mind.

I would absolutely hate to have your ban on my conscience; I think many of us find your contributions invaluable in shedding light on TRA thinking.

#letthemspeak

In which case Dr Upton is thick or delusional or both,

No. Dr U is not thick or delusional. Dr U is trans.

How the fuck could he possibly "not know this" even as he waged war against a female colleague who repeatedly said that she did not want to get changed next to him because he is male?

I think it is. Although I’m annoyed that yet more NHS money is having to be spent because men decided they were entitled to female spaces and the hospital management refused to say no them. Do we know who the barrister is? Is it the fabulous NC or the gorgeous BC?

And yes it is clear to Dr Upton that he is likely to be perceived as male by many women. It’s complete gaslighting bollocks for him to say that it isn’t, whatever he may opine about his “identity”.

At this point you're kind of making those things sound like synonyms.

Which they're not, by the way.

Plenty of trans people understand full well that they have not changed sex and that other people cannot be expected to believe that they have.

In Dr U's understand SP was one very transphobic individual who was harassing her. She doesn't see Peggie as reasonable or representing the norm. Nor do I.

The fact he used male facilities perfectly well for most of his life, had a penis and was referred to as “son” by his parents from birth kind of blows the fact he knew he was female out of the water. Anyone saying he knows he’s female is either batshit crazy or really really thick.

Plenty of trans people understand full well that they have not changed sex and that other people cannot be expected to believe that they have.

DU does not think she has "changed sex" - that is entirely your construction - your language - it's nonsensical.

DU understands herself to be female, despite having been registered male at birth. This is quite literally what it is to be a trans woman. Lots of other people also see and accept DU this way. You, however, don't, so you need to use your words if you want to explain that to someone.

He was the one harassing Sandy Peggie, not the other way round. He had a little book in which he wrote down instances of her refusing to use the changing room when he was in there.

Nevertheless, it doesn't actually matter whether Sandy Peggie or any female patients are "transphobic", according to Dr Upton. They have every right to be "transphobic" and not consent to him seeing or touching their bodies. They don't need to have a reason to refuse consent. And as far as patients were concerned he should have erred on the side of assuming that they may share Sandy Peggie's views (which polls show are shared by a majority of women) and sent an ACTUAL FEMALE DOCTOR to attend to them.

Did you just acknowledge Upton as a 'man who identifies as a woman?'

See? Even you know you're talking absolute mince. You know he's a man. He knows he's a man.

If he touches a patient who requested a female doctor, he is doing so without consent, & @TandoraYou. Know. This.

Shame on you.

He was the one harassing Sandy Peggie, not the other way round.

I totally disagree with you - as ever.

Dr Upton was male at birth, and since he, according to you, does not think he has changed sex, he knows he is male.

He cannot "understand" himself to be something he is not, unless he has some kind of cognitive impairment making him unfit to practice medicine.

Dr u said under oath that if a female patient requested a female doctor then they would treat them, completely ignoring the patients boundary and ignoring informed consent. Not fit to practice medicine if they cannot respect their patients in that way and ignore informed consent.

if they seriously think that they are biological and they feel female, that is enough to
make them biologically female - then they are not fit to practice medicine. A doctor should know what a biological female is - kind of important when treating patients. And if they don't they have zero business treating any patients

I would be alarmed if you didn't.

If I ever do see you say something I agree with I will have to re-evaluate my own opinion.

Did you just acknowledge Upton as a 'man who identifies as a woman?'

No - I understood that @Ereshkigalangcleg was talking about DU because that's how she sees DU and that's the language she chooses to use.

I knew what she meant, that doesn't mean I share her perspective.

We can understand each other and also not agree - I know you people like to pretend that's impossible (another facet of the extremism).

So if DU didn’t think he was ever male, why did he until he was an adult use male facilities? He only “transitioned” a couple of years ago. He even had a beard. He knew damn well he was male. Otherwise he couldn’t be a “transwoman”. Only makes can be a transwoman. He is not, never has been and never will be female. Anyone claiming he is needs help.

Well unfortunately for us both that's a position I wholeheartedly share 😂

Sandie was cleared of misconduct at her disciplinary

We await the tribunal verdict on whether Upton harassed Sandie

If that poster ever agrees with anyone that does not 100% agree with them, I’ll probably pass out in shock.

if they seriously think that they are biological and they feel female, that is enough to
make them biologically female - then they are not fit to practice medicine.

No it's perfectly possible to be trans and practice medicine.

Dr Upton was registered male at birth, and yet she understands/ recognises herself to be female. This is what it is to be a trans woman. No 'changing sex' involved.

He cannot "understand" himself to be something he is not, unless he has some kind of cognitive impairment making him unfit to practice medicine.

She doesn't have a cognitive impairment - she has a cognitive difference which renders her trans. This does not make her incapable of practicing medicine. By all accounts she is an excellent doctor.