To except DS21 to share a room with his sister? *edited by MNHQ*

[DasDrummer]

I'm a mum to 4 DC, DS21, DD15, and DS15, DD5

My eldest was born a girl but ill use DS for this thread as it's his argument for why he can't share a room. He is on testosterone and to a lot of people he “passes” as a man.

He barely finished school, he didn't take his GCSEs as it was in 2020, he briefly started a catering course at college but he dropped out after a few months. In 2019 I split with their dad and he started sharing a room with DD and has done since. I had to downsize and there was nothing I could do. They have the biggest room and DS15 has the box room. It isn't possible for me to sleep on the sofa and give one of them my room. DD5 is in with me (in her own bed though)

Anyway, he got a job at 17 (he turned 18 later that year) it was at the supermarket. He ended up buying tickets to see an artist he liked as they were going on tour and the manager said no he couldn't have it off, he ended up quitting. He got his trust fund at 18 and wasted it to go travelling around Europe to different shows for said artist. He basically said he could do what he wanted

He was gone for most of 2023, he came back and didn't get a job, he stayed in bed all day on his phone. He also met a girl that lived in Germany and spent Christmas 2023 with her (this was with him getting UC and buying cheap flights), he finally got a job early last year, the gf came here to visit him and DD had to share a bed with me for the week. I don't know why I allowed him to dictate but I regret it.

Anyway, they split up and he started saying he was depressed and he’d stay in bed all day etc. He ended up quitting the job in Feb/March and again he’d just stay in bed constantly. He did end up going to the GP and was given antidepressants and he's had 1 session of therapy.

He got a boyfriend in the summer and he was out with him a lot, he'd come over but honestly it was too much too soon. I never let him stay over apart from agreeing to when me and my younger DC were away (they broke up before this happened though). When they broke up the behaviour was the same, in bed most the time. He only eats one meal a day because I don't cook for him, he usually ends up ordering though.

He does go out drinking a few times a week, he gets UC and that mostly goes on nights out (and quickly), he sometimes disturbs us getting in drunk, but other times he stays out. The artist had announced another tour and he's been complaining he has no money to see him more than once which is his own fault tbh.

Anyway, to the point: he is saying he shouldn't have to share with DD15, he's an adult and if he should share with anyone it would be DS as he's not a woman and feels uncomfortable sharing with DD, this led to an argument over me not accepting him, he called me transphobic and I basically told him if he doesn't Iike it he should move out. He stormed out and hasn't replied to my messages, this was last night.

To add: they did used to share bunk beds but now they have their own single bed and the room is slightly partitioned with shelves but he still complains about her and sharing.

AIBU?

I think your eldest is obviously a very troubled person, has he ever been able to access therapy? I'm not excusing his behaviour, just trying to find out if there's any way he could be given counselling.

Your child is taking advantage and needs to move out.

There is no brother, there is a disturbed young woman taking a hormone that exacerbates her poor mental state. A hormone that has done irreversible damage to her body, the knowledge of which undoubtedly massively adds to her depression.

I know you think you are being some sort of super tolerant good guy here. You aren't. And what you are advocating for is a young boy having to share a room with his unwell sister. That's not kindness, it's abuse.

And as someone who works with kids this age, they are a hell of a lot less tolerant of this shit than most adults. Because they have been forced to live with the consequences of adults taking leave if their senses. They know more than most that it's dangerous bullshit and they are angry about it. Young people are increasingly conservative in the west and this shit is one reason why.

He should have no room imo . He doesn’t work or contribute to the household , he is an adult so he can either pay rent or go live elsewhere .

He's likely been awarded the 'Limited capability for work and work related activity' element, an extra £420 a month to spend on his nights out and no requirements to look for any kind of work. Likely will be re-assessed in around another five years time due to backlogs. The system is insane. The government have sort of indicated they are going to look at this but I guess time will tell. meanwhile millions of young people languish on benefits rather than being given the actual help they need.

Help her move out into her own place.

I think this would be bonkers tbh, I don’t think giving them exactly what they want is a great idea. They need to be incentivised to get an job not given a space to snooze the day away having sat up all night.

I moved out at 18, full time job, studied, worked, travelled etc. Adult children seemed to be babied these days.

He's an adult, they need to move out, period.

This 'adult man' is an extremely distressed woman who is gaslighting her whole family and has them walking on eggshells and probably needs a heck of a lot of mental health support and because she is described as an 'adult man' all people are doing is screaming 'Kick him out'.

Yes she can share a room. OP you need to sit down with her and go through all the options here.

Was he born in the wrong body? Or did having an abusive father make her so scared of her own vulnerability as a woman at the hands of men, that she found a way to protect herself. "Men are strong. Women are weak victims"

I appreciate everyone saying it's time for him to move out. But it sounds like he's had a really hard childhood and it's impacting him in all sorts of ways. He can't hold a job, he lacks ambition, he sounds depressed. He lacks hope.
If you can get him to engage with therapy you might be able to help him, and everyone in your family too

You are doing the best option in the circumstances.
i would simply say ‘yes this isn’t ideal, i would love for you to have your own room it comes down to I can’t afford a bigger place. When you are earning we can see if we can afford a bigger house with your contribution but you would need to be contracted into the rent because not paying would leave me and sibs homeless. And on repeat Yes I would love for you to have your own room just can not afford it at the moment.’ I would not bring sibs into this too much at all or your own needs (as clearly you would all be better off with your own room) as your eldest may lack the ability to empathise with others circumstances. You can give the wish in a dream as follows ‘gosh yes it would be great if you had your own room you would be able to …. hopefully we can afford that one day’ ‘please keep an eye out for a place with more bedrooms near little sibs school and let me know of any you find suitable so we can see if we can afford it’ be clear that the issues are not your attitude but availability of dog accepting rentals of the the right size price and location. These are the real adult issues at play.

Yes, I agree..that was my point upthread about him accessing counselling. This is a very troubled young person and it sounds as if he's got a lot of problems. There's having his teen years in the abusive household, a father in no contact, changing gender, struggling to settle.
I don't think "chucking them out" is a solution, nor is pandering.
Could you look at support services available locally?

Time for him to move out.

If he blames you for the split then I’d be telling him to go to his dad’s then if he’s so wonderful.
I’d maybe ask what DS15 thinks about sharing and if your eldest complains about it, he knows where the door is.

I believe that you’re focusing on the wrong person. The main focus should not be on whether your oldest child rooming with DS15 would solve the issue re DD being noisy!

The main question ought to be whether rooming with your DS21 is in the best interest of your 15 yo daughter!

and is it really appropriate for your 15 yo daughter to room with your 21 year old son? Who comes home drunk, suffers from depression and seems to be extremely inconsiderate? I don’t think so. And as you said: He disturbs her as well!

The 21 year old should sleep on the sofa (get a comfortable sofa bed for him) or move out.

He is probably on some sort of disability benefit if he is on antidepressants.

Totally agree.

Time to support your other children and protect them from their arrogant sibling.

It’s interesting that her mental health is too fragile for work but international travel with unearned money was a breeze and late nights drinking, shagging and wanting to go to gigs hasn’t stopped.

If life was this simple we’d all be doing it. Time for her to engage with the reality of adult life and move out.

Testosterone, or no, she’s still a female though.

He's answered his own question. He's an adult and doesn't like the living arrangements at your place - move out! End of story.

woman or man: I don’t think a mentally unstable, depressed adult who comes home drunk should share the room with a 15 yo.
Especially when that adult is upset by what seems to be a fairly standard level of teenage „noise“.

And I do find the fact that it has apparently just been quietly assumed to that this adult will share with the 15 yo girl quite toxic, yes.

OP‘s has explicitly stated that her 15 yo DS is happy in his own room and is just as noisy, so that wouldn’t solve the issue of the 15 yo DD being „noisy“ and disturbing her adult child.

so the 15 yo DS is allowed to be just as noisy in the privacy of his own room but the 15 yo girl is made to feel that her apparently quite standard level of noisiness (aka her taking up space) is a problem? In her own room, which really ought to be to be safe space for her?
and her preferences and needs haven’t even been a discussion?

I really would worry about the lessons being taught to that 15 yo girl!

I am not saying that the 21 yo is not deserving of love and support. But the 21 yo is an adult. The 15 yo girl is not.

believe that you’re focusing on the wrong person. It shouldn’t be about whether your oldest child rooming with DS15 would solve for your oldest child‘s problems / complaints about rooming with his sister.

The question is whether rooming with your DS21 is in the best interest of your 15 yo daughter!

and is it really appropriate for your 15 yo daughter to room with your 21 year old son? Who comes home drunk, suffers from depression and seems to be extremely inconsiderate? I don’t think so.

I think that's a good point, @PumpkinsAndCoconuts Focus on your 15 yr old DD.

I’ve read your posts and I think I understand sleeping arrangements so far.
DS21 and DD15 share partitioned in biggest room.
You share with DD5 in middle room
DS15 in box room.

Personally I think DS21 should go on sofa. Yes keep some clothes etc upstairs but it’s him that is the problem here - he’s old enough to move out but isn’t! So if he doesn’t want to share then the sofa it is!

You can’t spend your life feeling guilty for the break up and letting DS21 guilt you into letting him be so frankly selfish and manipulative at home. The trans thing is irrelevant to this behaviour - he’s being a selfish, lazy entitled prick.

DS has MH issues - so do a large proportion of population! Taking a pill or accessing therapy isn’t a magic bullet. He has to help himself - get a routine and stop moping about and expecting the world to land in his lap! He can’t sleep because he stays in bed all day. If he wants to fix his sleep he has to be out of bed 9am every day. He needs to go for walks and get offline , help clean house, look at some training courses or jobs etc etc. Right now he’s saying woe is me I can’t have this dream job, dream relationship, dream home life - whilst being a selfish prick and reaping exactly what he’s sowing.

I think you did right standing your ground with him and I’d continue to do so. He shouldn’t be sharing with either child now as he’s an aduly and they are children - he should get his own place and start taking responsibility for himself. In the meantime the sofa it is!

Take the question of whether it's reasonable or not out of the equation because it's really just a matter of practicality. The house isn't big enough for everyone to have their own rooms. (You should not feel guilty about that. You are doing the best you can to support your family.) Everyone is sharing a bedroom, except for your DS15, who is in a box room. Is your adult child expecting everyone else to move around to cater to their whim (ie. your DD15 move into the box room and DS15 move into the bigger room with your adult child)?

Your other children are still children, at school, and need to be living at home. Your adult child is old enough to get (and keep) a job and rent a room in a shared house elsewhere. When they have their own place, which they pay for themselves, they can dictate where people sleep in their property. When they're living in your property, they'll have to follow your rules.

If feeling sorry for this messed up young man whose parents were too irresponsible to ensure (when planning their separation) that all of their children (young and young adult) were properly housed and able to have some privacy and comfort at home then yes, clearly I am 'mental'.

I find it hard to believe that this is a real scenario, to be honest. If it is, here is a mother who clearly thoroughly dislikes her child. Not one nice thing written about him. Kid is in therapy. Can you imagine ever writing about your own child that way? Not making sure they were comfortable in their own home?

That is not being 'mental' it is caring for and loving your children.

"Supporting" the "poor lad" how exactly?