Reform voters may not be racist but they are at least dangerously naive

[ChocolateMagnum]

AIBU to accept that some Reform voters may not actually be racist, but to be pretty certain that, if they're not, they are at the very least dangerously naive?

I thought we all got taught at school about how fascism took over in 1939s Germany? And there's so much out there at the moment showing why we are at a dangerous turning point in history again.

Why is it that the so-called non-racist Reform voters not see that they are aligning themselves with a covertly racist and fascist-leaning party and that their support risks tipping the balance towards a fascist dictatorship in the UK?

Let’s not forget that it’s the Left who have pushed the idea that humans can change sex! Nobody has a monopoly on critical thinking and to be honest, the people who bang on about it the most often have massive blind spots of their own, in my experience.

I think one of the problems we have is that nobody in authority is prepared to properly discuss the elephant in the room.. population.
When I was born, the UK population was 55 million. Growing up, I remember gridlocked roads, strikes, demonstrations, overcrowded housing estates, etc, etc..
Now, there are 70 million of us. The only difference to the UK is that more of it is now permanently buried under concrete.
At some point, somebody is going to have to say "enough is enough." People are beginning to dislike their country. We cannot keep building more towns, roads, schools hospitals, etc. They fill up faster than we can build them.
Everyone coming here needs a job, but we now have a Labour government, so unemployment is set to rise (as it does every time they are in office).
Until all sides have a long hard look at the real issue, there is little point voting for any party, thinking they will solve it.
The UK's needs are complex, and cannot be satisfactorily served by any single party.
We are not sliding into fascism, just naively carrying on. Resentment of immigrants is not unique to the UK.

Key traits of fascism:

A cult of personality (leader as embodiment of the nation) – can’t think of anyone on the left who ticks this box, but Nigel “Man of the People” Farage certainly does.

Rejection or radical weakening of democratic institutions – neither side in the UK has gone full tilt on this yet, but Farage has very much positioned himself as “anti-establishment.”

Use of violence, paramilitaries, or threats of violence against political opponents – again, not overt from either side here, but they weren’t called the Farage riots for nothing.

Scapegoating and demonisation of “outsiders” or minorities – this is basically the right wing and Reform’s bread and butter.

Strong nationalism, often with an emphasis on purity or exclusion – again, very much the right/Reform MO.

Propaganda, control or suppression of media – right-wing outlets are 100% guilty of this. The Mail, Telegraph, Express, and GB News have all been caught pumping out misinformation and manipulated data. There’s also a serious downplaying of racially aggravated assaults across the board. For example, just a few weeks ago, a group of 8 in Durham were arrested after shouting “white power,” doing Nazi salutes, and attacking a Black family with stones in a park. It was reported only by the BBC and LBC under a headline of “Four arrested for violent disorder.”

An overriding claim to represent the “true people” against internal enemies – once again, straight out of the right/Reform playbook.

So yeah… fascism is definitely coming from the left 😂

Reform voters are no more Nazis than Labour voters are communists. This rhetoric is ridiculous. Is it not more naive to think that doing the same old policies is going to make the country. Wasn't Einstein who said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

I think your understanding about 1930s Germany and how fascism got such a strong hold is half baked if you don't understand the wider context of how fascism became popular and the role that moderates and left leaning parties played in this. The same is true in Britain.

We supposedly live in a democracy and yet time and again masses of people are ignored when they express concerns about issues that matter to them e.g. a bloated welfare state with a spiralling disability bill, immigration etc. These are deemed sensitive subjects and almost taboo for parties like Labour. People become angry and disenfranchised and ultimately will want to vote for change even if it comes with unpalatable additional policies that they don't necessarily support. What else can people do though? The main parties seem unable or unwilling to represent popular views and in a democracy this will ultimately lead to something new.

I think you are being naive to expect people to abstain or vote for one of the other major parties when none of them are assessing the issues that clearly matter to most people.

I think its more just fear coming from people who have a cushy little life funded by the state, and have to grow up and get an actual job.

I think that is what happens when people rely on Chatgpt to write their opinions.

I don't know about racist or xenophobic, what really worried me is that Reform voters don't seem to actually have a clue what they are voting for. Blindly banging on about immigration with no further thought as to the hows, or whys or what next, and certainly not much idea of any other policy Reform might have. It's worrying.

Didn't Starmer start referring to Reform as the enemy yesterday, whilst calling for a patriotic renewal Maybe he ticks more boxes than you give him credit for?

No party can "fix" the UK. Voting Reform won't change a thing.

The monetary system collapsed in 2008. It was "saved" by breaking all the rules and creating money out of nothing. Since then, western economies have been on life support, negative interest rates, money printing, anything to prop up the illusion. But time has run out.

There is simply no way that the economy can generate the money required to make the system work again. We owe three trillion pounds. That's around 40k per person. The average UK salary is significantly less than that. There is literally no way that any Government can fix that. Unless the average worker suddenly gets a 10k pay rise, we can't even have that conversation.

But people, stupid people, think the problem is immigration, and that a digital I.D is going to fix everything.

Wake the fuck up people!

But nor does anyone else. Conservative voters don't even know who their leader will be, or any of their policies, even if its still Kemi know one knows what her policies are other than cutting maturnity leave. Labour came in with a policy of change and smashing the boats, then went after pensioners and the disabled, and lets face it we also have no idea who will be their leader for the election - even the majority of labour MPs what Starmer gone. If anything Reform looks like the party of consistency,

What will fix everything?

You are saying that voting Reform, Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem etc won't "fix" the UK so what will?

I'm sure not voting at all won't help either.

Labour are finding out this applies to them rn, hence their loss of support.

So what about the people who can't afford to pay for it? Sod 'em?

OP, have you never thought these little lectures just annoy people more? No one sees virtue or wisdom in the labellers any more, just deceit, manipulation and control, with a splash of corruption. I'll be voting Reform and don't care what you think.

Perhaps, but Reform voters can't even describe anything that Reform say they will do.
We all know that politicians don't always deliver what they promise, but they don't seem to even know what Farage is promising (beyond vague immigration reductions).
It's a very different start point. Going in blind.

Who on earth voted for Labour and had any idea they would raise NI? What about the new tax rises mooted around penalising people who live in London and the South East with increased Stamp Duty and/or Council Tax? I imagine the struggling families in London had no idea that they were actually voting for a party that had the intention of penalising them for having the cheek to live in area that already costs them a huge amount of money in rent/mortgage payments.

Also what about all the other stuff they said they would do and haven't done? Asylum hotels are still going strong despite pledges to close them. The Net Zero pledges have been effectively binned where are all the new houses they promised?

The fact that Labour haven't done everything exactly per their manifesto, is really irrelevant to Reform fans not even knowing what Reform want to do in the first place.

But they will issue a manifesto before the election just like every other party. Their outline policy doc has more clarity than other parties - we have no idea what Labour are planning to tax rises and that is happening next month. I think we have a clearer idea of what Farage stands for than Kemi, even Starmer to be honest as he blows with the wind.

Nothing will. The economic model which has underpinned western economies for the past 100 years is now so broken that it simply cannot be fixed. You can vote for whoever you like, but we are now beyond the point of politics being able to help.

The UK isn't just broke, we are bankrupt. There is no money. Anywhere. Doesn't matter who's in power.

There. Is. No. Money.

I don't have the answer. The answer would likely require a global reset, that won't happen voluntarily. It would take a world war to do that . . . 🤔

Labour went in with ‘change’ it’s probably why they’re polling as they are and Starmer’s rating is pretty much the lowest since the 70s for any PM.

I'm sure they will issue a manifesto before an election, I don't beleive their voters will pay any notice to it.

Not exactly per their manifesto is a bit of an understatement. They ripped it up the day after they were elected, by screwing pensioners with their first action, and we wonder why the voting public is sceptical.

Why? Loads of people voted Labour time and are no not supporting them.

If nothing will (which is your opinion, fair enough) then doesn't that suggest we should all just vote for the party that best represents our short term interests while we await the inevitable collapse of Western civilisation?