Reform voters may not be racist but they are at least dangerously naive

[ChocolateMagnum]

AIBU to accept that some Reform voters may not actually be racist, but to be pretty certain that, if they're not, they are at the very least dangerously naive?

I thought we all got taught at school about how fascism took over in 1939s Germany? And there's so much out there at the moment showing why we are at a dangerous turning point in history again.

Why is it that the so-called non-racist Reform voters not see that they are aligning themselves with a covertly racist and fascist-leaning party and that their support risks tipping the balance towards a fascist dictatorship in the UK?

Immigration numbers have halved in the last year, so either 72% of the voting public are either not paying attention to reality or are swallowing misinformation without question.

The way I see the options are:

1. Labour and Tory parties - a bit shit, making bad decisions, causing problems for the country. But, they're both committed to democracy.

1. Reform - may have a couple of non-shit ideas BUT is a high risk for causing the country to slide into fascism.

My AIBU is that, to me, it is a far higher priority to protect democracy than it is to fix immigration. If we lose democracy, then we are all at even greater risk of harm as individuals and as a society.

That is the naivety I am concerned about. Why are people so worried about immigration that they are prepared to risk the country becoming a fascist state? And why can't they see that the quality of life they will have under a fascist dictatorship will be far worse than that under a poorly implemented democratic government?

Ironically, the fascism is coming from the other side these days.

Well said 👍

Can you explain this? What is the 'other side'? And what are they doing that is fascist?

Could you say some more about this?

Yes, what do you mean @PurpleChrayn?

I wonder why that phrase triggers you so much? Is it because you hate to acknowledge (or be reminded of), the importance of it?

I say it’s none of your business how people vote and why. You do you. I could counter what you’re saying and point out how naive the voters were who voted in the incompetent clowns we now have in power. Many people were pointing out how historically Labour were crap and always revert to type when they get in power, how they lie through their teeth, over promise and under deliver and bow to the unions at the first opportunity and are ruled by the far left. Yet here we are.,.,

Yep

Yes we do realise.

The country cannot afford the current level of service (our debt is increasing each month).

So we can wait for the NHS to collapse or we can start changing it to a privately funded system that works.

Same with the police. They are seriously short staffed and that's why shoplifting is now rife. This needs overhauled.

We can face up to our problems now or we can sit around handing out benefits while Rome burns.

I personally would rather have the security of calling out an ambulance and getting it within 5 mins even if I have to pay for it. At least I know it's coming then.

I'd rather know the police were turning up within 5 mins of calling 999 even if I have to pay for it. At least then I know they are coming.

This complete lack of public service scares me far more than someone actually changing it and having to pay for it.

White, female, middle age, uni educated, professional job till I retired early. Watch lots of current affairs. Used to work in finance related job.
I actually think those who are burying their head in the sand are woefully naive. Actually scratch that. i think those that are burying their head in the sand are terrified of what's coming which I can understand.

When people trot out the "We are all entitled to our opinions" mantra, they never seem to apply that to other people. If we are all entitled to our opinions, then we are entitled to believe that the opinions of others are naive and wholly unsupported by evidence, and to say so.

I see Mahmoud the Home Secretary going to announce today, no benefits for migrants and they must speak English and not have a criminal record to be able to stay here permanently. A good start. Mumsnet would be having an outcry if Reform announced this. Everyone knows how we are going is totally unsustainable. 25% of social housing in London is headed by first generation migrant, they’re not net contributors. What about the British? It’s madness how seemingly intelligent people have no idea what a drain this is.

This silly scaremongering is getting boring and a bit desperate.

What exactly is your objection to critical thinking? Would you prefer that people don't think critically and simply accept whatever your politicians of choice say?

I wonder how long it will take for citizen to realise that all the woes of the world can't just be blamed on politics.

Maybe being governed by each party in succession might do it? How many of those who were adamant Labour would save the country if only they could finally win the election are now blong all their problems on the Labour Party?

All the moans of the British societies are the exact same ones citizens of other countries. The problem is not politics, its society. Fir the first time in history, we are not progressing but regressing. Our focus needs to be on ourselves and start taking responsibility for our own failures. Obesity, education laziness, sense of entitlement, blame culture, etc....until all this is tackled, we will continue to go from one government to another whilst things continue to regress.

We no longer have representative democracy in this country.

It’s been steadily undermined since 1997; parliament is now just a talking shop. The real power lies elsewhere. How many quangos do we now have - it was 444, and Labour said they’ve got rid of 6. So hundreds of non-democratic bodies making decisions and spending vast amounts of taxpayers money. These people are not elected; we cannot remove them. Blair was quite open about his aims - to remove power from the public as they couldn’t be trusted to make the ‘correct’ decisions. This is what’s gone so fundamentally wrong over the last thirty years, and why, whoever we vote for, we end up with the same incompetent bunch who refuse to address the concerns of the public.

Labour got in power under the theory that they must be better than the Tories.

There are so many voters now very disappointed with Labour, and feeling they’re no better, than the Tories were, that current polls show Farage winning the next election, and would be able to form a government, although just short of a working majority.

With Labour trailing a poor second, the Tories third, and the LD’s sent back to irrelevance.

Unless Labour start succeeding at something, they will lose.

People are disillusioned, think the country is getting worse, and feeling poorer. 🤷‍♀️

yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/53059-yougov-mrp-shows-a-reform-uk-government-a-near-certainty-if-an-election-were-held-tomorrow

So did you think their predecessors were doing a good job? Do you believe that where we are now has nothing to do with those predecessors?

I agree. The people who are horrified that we might actually need a different goverment seem to be burying their head in the sand terrified their benefits might be stopped.

Surely that is more naive than having to face up to the problem and what the solutions might be.

I note that while they say reform will be terrible they also have no solution to the fact our country is increasing it's debt each month, has practically no growth and inflation going the wrong way. It's starting to remind me alot of the seventies......

We’re re-running the 1970’s at high speed, it appears.

Those “many people” were relying on short memories or others being too young to remember the Blair/Brown governments. I remember 1997-2010 very well and the quality of public services then. Satisfaction with the NHS was 70% in 2010, it was 21% in July last year.

i think the comparisons to 1930s Germany are overdone and unhelpful. It’s more like 1970s Britain.

I was a naive Remainer. I’m seeing the same tired arguments being trotted out again. They didn’t work last time.

We can argue all day about whether Reform supporters are less intelligent, more racist, less capable of critical thinking than other people. I wouldn’t vote Reform with a gun to my head, but it’s idiotic to imagine that Reform people are a hive mind any more than Labour, Conservatives etc. they are people with experiences, prejudices and political opinions just like the rest of us.

The important point is that they have a vote, just like you, they will probably use it, and if there is no alternative that appeals to them they will vote Reform.

No objection. But it irks me that the left (and it’s invariably the left on here) think they have the monopoly on it and that those no left leaning lack it for simply having a different opinion

It is rife on mn