To think of your child is 5+ and still can’t behave in public, you’re the problem?

[ThatDeepGoose]

I understand developmental delays, this isn’t about that. It’s about basic manners not being taught.

I would yes to u if it was someone I knew, e.g a relative who simply did not parent their child, without additional needs, as expected and this resulted in poor behaviour . It not necessary an accurately judgment to make on strangers. Saying that when im in a supermarket or restaurant I don't want kids running about.

You obviously missed the point. This is a general question about behaviour - it doesn't start with 'some children I know'.

But you, of course, aren't judging at all?

OP isn't asking to give advice but to ask for opinions.

Your own long-term professional involvement with special needs children has nothing to do with the straightforward pain in the arse kid slinging M n Ms around the Tesco.

If it isn't HER child, she really doesn't know if the child is neurodivergent or not.

No parent goes around advertising it.

How do you feel about the straightforward pain in the arse of wheel chairs getting in your way?

Or the straightforward pain in the arse of developmentally delayed people making disconcerting noises in public?

Or the straightforward pain in the arse old man in front of you, blocking you in with his pained shuffling, preventing you from getting to the till?

Pity the world doesn't pin a label to everyone's back so you know what's wrong with them and can switch on your 'Compassion' mode.

I have no doubt the justification for this “non judgement” is altruism. However, human being all judge - it’s impossible to live an non-judgemental life, and it’s a useful and effective tool we help us navigate the world. Claiming not to judge is allowing people to evade reality and the consequences of their behaviours, which is damaging.

It all comes down to the old good lying to oneself in order to feel better. And lying to oneself, as we know, has very destructive consequences. The obvious beneficial outcome for one who claims not judge others is not needing to judge oneself, either. But encouraging people ‘not to be judgemental’ and blanking out reality so they can feel better isn’t doing them a kindness in the long term.

I so agree with you OP. On this thread, there is a lot of talk about being judgemental be it about kids, be it about parents. Without judging our children, how can we decide what is right and what is wrong. Without that, how can we know what boundaries setting. I think it is also a cultural thing. Eoropean upbringing tends to expect children to behave the way their parents expect and do as their parents do ASAP. If you go to other continents, everything we know is of stood on its head. Lots of places don't expect kids to sit at the table in restaurants and even clap if they jump up on the table and dance. Running riot is seen as creative enthousiasm.

Both of those can be true at the same time. People are allowed to feel annoyance and irritation, but usually temper it with compassion too.

Shame you have completely misunderstood this post. OP is not talking about any kind of neurodivergent kids, just kids in general.

Everywhere you go where there are children, they are screaming. They can’t all have something wrong with them and each time the parents are oblivious whilst everyone else’s nerves are shattered by the chimpanzee antics of the children.

I actively avoid going into supermarkets or shops when children have finished school.

So she hates all children?

Because no one can assess neurodiversity just from observing a child in public.

They all have their days in my experience! Also the children should be seen but not heard school of thinking is not universal.

As you don't know which children have additional needs or what age the child acting up is YABU.
Some kids are badly behaved but usually it's a case of most kids act up some of the time.
A five year old may be having a tantrum but for all you know it's the first tantrum they've had in months.
Children aren't always in control of their emotions and they can come out at anytime, particularly if they've been well behaved all day at school.
I don't see many children hitting their siblings but if they do, how do you know the parents don't deal with it at home? Much harder to deal with in public.
There are, as I said some children who misbehave/constantly push boundaries/ignore their parents in public but unless you know the family how can you tell if you've just seen them at a bad moment or if this normal everyday life for this family?

So are you saying that we have to consider that since 'an estimated 15-20% of children and young people in the UK are neurodivergent', we must stipulate the 'children' are neurotypical or neurodivergent or not notably neurodivergent?

It means mind your own bloody business and don't be so judgemental. I can't bear little kids but I know I'm biased. It isn't the kids fault, it's mine.

This. I dare say not following through is common, so children soon learn that words mean nothing.

I used to work in a library where a woman with twin girls of maybe 7 was a regular. Absolutely every time, the kids would play up, running around with loud squealing, and the hopelessly wet mother would eventually tell them that if they didn’t behave, there would be no video/DVD to take home. (Some years ago now.)

So they’d end up back at the counter with no DVD, and the kids would then start very noisy wailing, whereupon the mother would give that helpless ‘What can you do?’ shrug, and say, ‘Oh, go on and choose one then…’.
Cue instant beams of triumph - we’ve won again!

Every time!

Kids don’t just misbehave for no reason.

Behaviour is either an unmet need, or a form of communication. They don’t just wake up and think “I’m gonna throw things around and wind up strangers today!”

What people who actually understand behaviour try and do is work out why a child is behaving a certain way, and address that.

He’s “slinging m&ms around” for a reason. Either because he’s ND and in crisis, or because he’s unable to regulate emotionally, or because he’s trying to communicate something to whoever is with him.

Could be anything. But the point is - you don’t know why either, and I’m assuming won’t be doing anything to rectify the situation, so really should keep your nose out.

I would agree with you but there are awful lot of adults who can’t behave in public too:
speaking/shouting far too loudly, horrible laughs in restaurants. Especially people in groups.
Getting drunk and behaving badly with it.
Angry behaviour in shops towards other customers and the poor shop assistants.
Smoking or vaping in places where it is not allowed.
Putting your feet or dogs on train seats.
I really could go on and on………

In most cases I would prefer badly behaved children,

Yawn

You are being called out for so many things! Mainly about kids with special needs. The whole point about them is that they are 'special' and can't be judged in the same way. You have been very clear that these are not the kids you are talking about. Very little has been said on your thread about good manners. In my view, good manners have mostly to do with not bothering or offending others. I don't know if it's allowed but this article explains it best. To 'do as you're told', especially at age 5 is probably better than 'please do this, if you agree'. https://www.theguardian.com/society/commentisfree/2023/sep/17/kids-children-good-manners-blind-obedience

I would never, ever refer to any of those people as being a pain in the arse.

OP has never shown any hatred towards children or if so, kindly point it out.

I don't think I did. Like a PP, I've worked with children - children with SEN in particular- nearly all my working life and even I can't tell which strangers are likely to have SEN from watching them and their parents in public for 30 mins or an hour. How could OP possibly know which behaviours are down to SEND and which are down to parenting? Even if she thinks the parenting being displayed at the time is a bit crap, she has no idea of the full picture.