To think of your child is 5+ and still can’t behave in public, you’re the problem?

[ThatDeepGoose]

I understand developmental delays, this isn’t about that. It’s about basic manners not being taught.

But the only situation in which it would be 'clear' is if you personally know the children and their parents very well. Is that what you mean?

I have skin in the game I suppose because my 8yo told me to fuck off whilst on a shopping trip recently, much to the disgust of passers by. Until about 5 minutes prior to that, she'd looked and sounded like any other well behaved, polite, courteous 8yo out shopping with their mum.

I’m not here to police families like yours, genuinely. That’s exactly why I added caveats around toddlers and children with additional needs.

I’m talking about situations where it’s obvious the adults aren’t even trying to set boundaries - like a child hitting others repeatedly while the parent laughs or ignores it. That’s not the same as struggling despite doing your best. I’m sorry you’ve been judged unfairly, I’m not trying to add to that.

the thing is, you could be making a judgement based on one split second of that family and child. They could be having a bad day and never ‘act up’ in public but you could be making a judgement and thinking that’s their reality. You could make a judgement on their behaviour and the parents could have done everything they could and avoid going in public because they know how the child behaves, but this day could have been unavoidable and the parents being embarrassed on the occasions. There are so many different reasons, Sen, overstimulation etc - but in all honesty judging parents as if you think they WANT their kid to be poorly behaved. Like no parent wants their kid to be like that and when they do misbehave in public it’s so overwhelming and upsetting

What do you think a decent, kind and reasonable parent should do as a follow up at home if their usually well behaved five year old has a tantrum in Tesco's?

And why would it be any business of you, a complete stranger what they do behind closed doors?

Just to be clear, no, I didn’t mean I personally know them. I meant when the parent openly laughs off or ignores repeated disruptive behaviour, not when it’s a one-off or part of a bigger picture that strangers can’t see.

I’m not talking about children who are clearly loved and supported, even if they’re having a hard time. I’m talking about kids acting out in public while their carers seem detached, dismissive or openly indulgent of it and that’s not the same.

If a child is usually well-behaved and has a tantrum now and then, that’s not what I’m talking about, all kids have off days. My post was more about when certain behaviours are constant, extreme and clearly never addressed, in public or private.

And yes, I get that strangers don’t know the full picture but public behaviour does shape how we experienced shared spaces, and it’s not unreasonable to reflect on how that plays out sometimes. Doesn’t mean I think every parent needs to be perfect or judged harshly.

You're very well acquainted with these children, their parents, and their home life so I assume you must be talking about your own children. There is a lot of help out there if you're willing to engage with it.

Have you ever seen a child with ADHD unmedicated AND medicated? Medication doesn't always help, but when it does it is like night and day.

Maybe judge others less.

Is it someone you know? Or else how do you know there’s no structure and follow through at home?

If it’s the first and there’s no SEN issues, then yeah that’s not good. If the latter, then that’s a whole lot of assumption.

I hear you.
Pointless goady nonsense.

You talking about the parents or the child here? Ha.

So you don't know them, just judging from afar with no knowledge.

I’ve worked with kids with ADHD and I’ve seen how much of a difference support (including meds) can make. I’m really not talking about families navigating diagnosed conditions or neurodiversity, that’s why I was careful to say so.

My post was about those situations where it seems like there’s no boundaries at all and no attempt to guide behaviour, not about judging people doing their best in complex situations. I understand why this topic hits a nerve for some.

Fgs can we just stop with all the excuses for bratty behaviour. Ops point is more about badly behaved kids with parents who don't give a shit rather than autistic kids having a bad day.
It's like everytime someone's older parent or spouse is being a nasty twat the question is always "could they have dementia?" No sometimes bad behaviour is just exactly that.

That’s exactly why I was careful to clarify I’m not talking about toddlers or children with additional needs, or snap judgements about one-off meltdowns. I’m talking about those situations where the behaviour is consistently disruptive and the adults visibly ignore it or enable it, not a stressed out parent doing their best in a hard moment. We can acknowledge that parenting is hard without pretending boundaries don’t matter.

But perhaps you see a snapshot later in the day but in fact the child has been awake and been expected to behave without any breaks or suitable entertainment/distractions for hours.

So you are only talking about families where you know them well enough to know whether there is likely additional needs and what kinds of parenting goes on at home?

YNBU

There are always parents who come onto these threads and are very defensive because they are fed up of being judged for the behaviour of their SEND/ND child but you made it very clear that you weren't talking about those families.

I was in town this morning and a woman walked past with 2 boys, 1 about 7 or 8 and the other an older teen. The younger one had clearly been playing up and the mum was taking him home. He was tearful and she looked stressed. I caught her eye so smiled and made a comment on the lines of We've all had days like that. We exchanged a few words, they carried on their way and the teen said thank you as they went off.

I have every sympathy for parents in those situations where they're clearly either parenting a child with tricky behaviour or they have a child who is generally a good kid but is having a bad day. The key thing is that you can see that they are actively parenting the child.

What I can't stand is parents who allow their child's behaviour to affect others (eg by allowing them to run around noisily in a cafe or restaurant, which is both annoying to fellow customers and potentially dangerous) and don't bother doing anything about it.

Some children don't look like they additional needs though so YABU.

My DD doesn't look like she has additional needs. But she does. And when she doesn't "behave" in public I've no doubt she looks like a "brat" to outsiders.

Do those kids exist? I have rarely seen 5+ kids behaving in the way you describe, apart maybe occasionally at soft play where apparently everything goes "because it's soft play".

And if it does happen, how do you know it's "clearly repeated behaviour", when you don't know them, their background, what might have happened that day...?

No, I’m talking about repeated public behaviour paired with visible parental inaction. Not one-off incidents and not hidden diagnoses.

Obviously, no stranger can know everything about a family but I do think it’s fair to observe when there seems to be no attempt to guide or intervene. That’s not the same as judging someone for struggling or dealing with a tough moment.

I do understand this but often it's really hard to tell which kids have additional needs. When my DC were younger, even though they were non verbal by just glancing at them you might not know. The amount of stares, tuts and comments we got was awful (even though we were running around trying to manage the chaos). Now they're older they finally tolerate ear defenders and other signifiers of disability / aids and they have very obvious mannerisms etc - people give us so much more help in public now.

My 17 and 16 year old still sometimes hit or push each other when out, only occasionally mind but I thought that was normal sibling rivalry.
Sometimes kids have crap days too believe it or not and can misbehave. My 6 year old had a complete meltdown on a recent camping trip, I have never seen her like that before. She was tired and overwhelmed.

I do get what you mean. I think generally parenting seems to be becoming quite lax in quite a few groups. Sometimes I feel I’m the only one with high expectations of children’s behaviour (which I know is not the case).

My child is autistic, he’s very bright but struggles a lot in certain situations so I fully understand meltdowns and have every sympathy with parents having a tough time. It’s difficult for us to go out without incident but what we are not is passive in our parenting. We work very hard to avoid / help in a meltdown.

Examples I’m talking about are going to the theatre, we fully prepare eg. Ear defenders and will take son out so as not to disturb the experience for others if he needs a break. But it seems I’m often alone in being interested in others experience, others’ kids are loud, jumping on seats, leaving rubbish behind. These are all things I find unacceptable when others have paid for an experience.

We’ve had play dates where other children run riot around my house where the parents don’t even seem to notice what I deem to be unacceptable behaviour. Things like chasing my animals, smashing the window in our playhouse, throwing food in the house. No SEN that I’m aware of.

I’ve been called fat at school drop off whilst the parent watches with an ineffective ‘that’s not kind’.

Being a parent of a child with additional needs I’m aware these needs might not be obvious and try to be compassionate but I’m actively trying to teach my child what is and what is not acceptable but increasingly feel alone in this!

I’m now ready to be ripped apart like the OP.

All kids have their moments imo 🤷🏼‍♀️ you could be the most perfect parent that walks the planet but I guarantee your aged 5+ child has played up in public at least a couple of times. What I’d find more odd is a stranger judging someone’s entire parenting skills off one interaction - an adult lacking emotional intelligence is more concerning than a child playing up.