To be shocked to see my (female) friend described as “they” on her work website?

[CandidMoss]

I was looking at a friend’s company website and noticed she’s now listed as “they/them.” It really surprised me, I’ve only ever known her to use “she” and she’s never mentioned anything about changing pronouns.

Not sure if it’s a mistake, a work policy or a personal shift she hasn’t shared. AIBU to feel a bit blindsided? Or is it none of my business?

No need for personal insults tut tut

Ask your friend?

I refuse to add any pronouns. I’m a woman, if I’m ever misgendered I’m happy to correct.

The ‘it’s not grammatically correct…’ thing isn’t quite right though is it? When you don’t know the sex of someone you might say ‘give them a call’ ‘see what they say’ etc. The they/them is about not identifying with either sex.

I know that it’s ridiculous to use anything other than he or she when you know the sex of the person you are talking about. That’s why I referred to the friend as ‘she’.

I'm not sure it's a good idea to move the discussion on to a critique of posting styles. It's irrelevant to the topic, and you run the risk of being offended.

So why put it on a public website?

Of course it is.

However. Either you’re really stupid, in which case there’s no point in prolonging this conversation, or you’re pretending to be really stupid in which case, ditto.

Right so that's it then, I must be stupid since I don't agree with you.

Yes it’s simple to do.

However, I feel that declaring pronouns implies a belief in/support for the concept of innate gender identity and the belief that someone can literally change sex because it links a persons pronouns to their gender identity instead of their sex.

I wouldn’t declare my pronouns for the same reason I don’t say a prayer in church with everyone if I’m at a christening/wedding/whatever. Everyone else is welcome to say the prayer, but it’s not for me because I don’t believe and therefore I do not participate in a ritual that is part of declaring that belief.

And yes I realise that if I go to a wedding or christening in a church I’m already participating to some extent, but you’ve got to balance support for a friend or family member who does believe with your own belief/value system and we’re all going to land at different points of compromise on that.

Well yeah if you believe that saying you are she/her means you are supporting trans people and if you don't want to support that then yes that would be an issue for you. Same as if you don't believe in pronouns then yes you wouldn't want to say you were she/her if you didn't believe in that (using your belief example)

Coerced pretence, whether that's pretending to believe in God or pretending its necessary for 99.5% of the population to state their pronouns so they are spoken of with the correct ones, is not support. It's dishonest and patronising.

No, it’s the lack of ability to understand a couple of straightforward paragraphs and the lack of coherent, intelligence argument in return. And not just to me, across this thread.

I don't think it's necessary for most people to state whether they prefer to be shown as male or female but i don't have an issue with it. If it's a box ticking exercise then it's no skin off my back, if it's to make others feel heard or respected then that's also fine with me. I know I'm female so it changes nothing.

As a side note I think lots of people celebrate Christmas when they dont actually believe in what it means.

Well.....you say that you're "shocked"
There isn't much which shocks me. Gaza, Ukraine, poverty, homelessness......not someone's choice of pronouns ......but YOU are shocked

If this person is a close friend, why not ask them about it? They can then explain the situation to you

I'm wondering why you were looking so closely at their company's website

My argument doesn't require me to waffle on about goodness knows what because my view is very easy to explain. I also think some people, not necessarily saying you, but some waffle on because they don't want to admit the real reason they disagree with pronoun use.

I see a few PPs are referring to 'sex'.

I'm assuming in this situation re they/them.....we're actually talking about gender?

chatgpt:

Sex refers to biological and physiological characteristics, such as chromosomes and reproductive organs, that distinguish individuals as male, female, or intersex.

Gender, on the other hand, is a social and psychological construct encompassing personal identity, roles, norms, and expectations associated with being a man, woman, or non-binary person.

Gender is not necessarily connected to a person's sex assigned at birth and exists on a spectrum, while sex is largely determined by biology.

Pronoun misuse. Not use. People who use pronouns correctly, understanding their definitions and usage, aren’t the problem.

Everything I’ve said has been pertinent to this discussion. That you call it “goodness knows what” shows your inability to either read or understand.

So you have an issue with someone using them/their?

Yes. They/them in singular is is for someone who’s sex is unknown. That an individual wants to deny their sex doesn’t mean sexed language is incorrect or can’t be used. Plus the demand that others either deny reality or misuse language is entirely unacceptable in the workplace (or anywhere else, for that matter).

As I’ve says before, individuals don’t own pronouns to misuse or redefine as they choose.

Sorry, a more accurate answer would be - that person can use what they like. What they can’t do is demand I misuse pronouns. If that person is female, that’s “she”. And that’s what I’ll use.

So in what way does it affect you if someone wishes to use they/them? You are looking at a website or someone's email and you notice they/them. How does that affect you? The majority of people will use she or he.

I think that’s been very clearly explained to you by multiple people on this thread so I’m not sure me reiterating what others have told you is a good use of my time. You either can’t or won’t understand.

I think you’re misconstruing what I’m saying. I said I feel like it means I support/endorse the belief itself. I didn’t say anything about supporting/not supporting individuals or people.

OK you 'feel like' it means something. What if it doesn't mean that.

No it hasn't. Can you say how it affects your day to day life?

It has.