AIBU to feel angrey after Holland Park School open morning?

[GentleMintCat]

I’m viewing a few secondary schools at the moment. We’ve seen some private ones (sadly not an option unless DD gets a huge bursary). Yesterday I went to see Holland Park School — which has always felt like our safest option since we live very close — but came out devastated and rather angry.

Yes, the grounds are gorgeous, with a shiny, modern building, a new sports pitch, and spacious classrooms with lovely views over Holland Park. But the atmosphere? Absolutely grim. The classrooms were deadly quiet — no energy, no spark, no laughter, no questions, no enthusiasm.

Alright, I guess that’s fine in maths or English, but even in drama, music, and art… in art, the children were like in a traditional exam setting, sitting at their desks, copying a dull sketch from the screen in complete silence, while the teacher walked around peering over their shoulders. I couldn’t sense a shred of creativity, joy, or curiosity in that room. It felt almost like a military camp. Even the bell sounded like a fire alarm — the sort you see in American prisons in films.

When I asked students what they loved about the school, they couldn’t answer. I rephrased and asked what was one thing they were excited about coming to school, but they seemed unsure. What they were actually excited to talk about was “refocus rooms,” detention room, and punishments. They really wanted us to see the detention room which was on the ground floor, a dark space with heavy black curtains where you’re sent for forgetting your planner, doodling in a workbook, wearing the wrong colour socks, missing a part of your uniform, or being two minutes late. This lovely, polite girl said she had already been there twice this year - once for doodling because she got carried away 'in a boring lesson' and another for forgetting her planner, which they have to carry with them at all times.

I went in Soviet school and honestly, even they didn’t have detention rooms. If anyone misbehaved, they would do extra fitness classes or some do some gardening and cleaning for school grounds, and parents were called in. I’m not saying that was better by any means, but honestly — how the hell have we normalised this? What are we thinking as a society, treating children like inmates inside schools, and then acting shocked when they go wild on the streets after being in this prison-like environment all day long?

All I want is a normal, happy school for my child. Is that too much to ask? And do I have to pay £30k a year to avoid this 'military silence + constant detentions'? Is that what we call a good education in the 21st century? I couldn’t stop thinking: what kind of young people will come out of this school environment — happy, curious, caring, loving, creative, enthusiastic and empathetic?

Happy, engaged children don’t misbehave!

What you described does sound quite boring and not suitable for teenagers.
Throughout my high school and university years, I doodled! It didn’t stop me from achieving high marks-in fact, it helped me because that’s how my brain works. I also was never punished for not having an item like a planner, nor did I have to wear a uniform. Misbehavior was addressed by simply sending students out of class, and that was the end of it. There were no detention rooms or other resources wasted, no shaming involved, and you were welcome to join the next lesson 40 minutes later. If you’re late - you’re marked as late, nothing more. That was in the '90s, and yes, not in the uk.
Non wonder so many children are struggling and then seeking diagnoses - it’s all too rigid, built only for one type of character/ brain wiring.

I think you’re receiving a lot of defensive replies because you mentioned Soviet schools (possibly being better even back in the day). Some people have pigeonholed you as a foreigner foremost and feel attacked, and they probably don’t even have a secondary school-aged child at the moment to comment realistically on the state of schools.

It was back in the 80s/90s when it was one of the schools politicians sent their children to. It was known for being chaotic and had poor standards, from what I remember (I had a friend who was there, but who left because of those issues). It's since become an academy.

Agree re strict and soulless systems. I don't know schools in that area of London, so can't suggest anything, but sympathies as there isn't always much choice.

I've heard good things about Marylebone Girls' and Marylebone Boys, both probably out of your way.

The culture of HPS has been destroyed in the last few years. It's a great example of how bad academies can be. On the whole it was a decent school when RBKC controlled it. Although be glad you aren't Catholic as CVMS is even worse.

It has honestly been my experience, teaching over many years , at all levels & and across the socioeconomic spectrum, both in the UK and abroad , that if one works with young people kindly and creatively & foster an atmosphere of mutual respect in the classroom outcomes are optimal in every regard .

Completely agree
Doodling helps many people concentrate .
One of my students who achieved A* in 4 Science subjects at A level was an inveterate doodler

Are you sure it’s oversubscribed given recent well-publicised scandals?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61325597.amp

educationuncovered.co.uk/news/school-which-was-forced-into-arms-of-englands-largest-academy-trust-now-facing-crisis

Absolutely agree, and in all of my experience of teaching too. The problem is a lot of "teachers" dont appear to possess kindness. There are 2 different types of teachers, the ones out for the kids, and the ones out for themselves. About 50/50 In my experience. Hence the clashing of opinion on this thread.

I think schools are prison like now. In my area, talk of toilets being shuttered, children not allowed to go at all.

We have been involved in our local school for many years, and with several different head teachers with our children.

Now the parental talk, with children who had just purchased their uniform that evening, was all about punishments to given.

Nothing about a welcome, an exciting transition, from their lovely Primary.

It would have been a suitable talk for people on their first day in prison.

It’s now an Academy of course. Which weirdos own them?

It should never have been allowed.

Yes, very much so! All I want is a happy school with nurturing environment and a good crowd. Academically she's strong, creative and well behaved.

Plenty more online about the issues besetting the school, which includes a massive scandal in 2022 followed by an “inadequate” Ofsted, an enforced merger into United Learning, and now more staffing disruption. This does not sound like a happy stable school with happy children and staff!

Then I recommend KAA, I have 2 children there doing their GCSE’s.

During year 11 they provide after school tutoring for free on certain days, which would cost me hundreds of pounds if I tried to find that for my children. I find that they are firm and fair but also not uber strict. They are right next to the swimming pool which they use for lessons in year 7.
They have a variety of after school clubs from sports to chess to design.
They also have a free breakfast club and an extra week off in October.

Hmm, but would you want a detention room to be a nice place that a child would look forward to returning to on another occasion?

As part of a group of student teachers I went on a month’s exchange visit to Leningrad (as it was then) in 1973, to study their education system. It was during their school and college term. We had lectures in a teacher training college, so met other students, and visited schools.

I remember one infants classroom, where they were all painting landscapes - grass, trees, sky. One child painted a cottage in theirs. When we discussed the visit at the end of the day one of our group said she’d gone back to that classroom and the cottage had been painted out.

I know nothing about Holland Park but don’t think any parents should expect to see typical lively lessons when they tour schools as a group on open days. Having a constant stream of parents popping in can be very disruptive, and it’s reasonable for the teacher (and pupils) to have their attention taken up answering parents’ questions. Teachers giving their students a quiet task to get on with while this goes on can be a practical thing to do, even if it’s not their normal way of working.

OP, I’m so sorry about the culture shock and the reality check you’ve had.

English state secondaries are truly terrible places. Massive, badly funded and deeply unhappy. They’re all about discipline and obedience. And humiliation too. And the food! Chips, chicken twizzlers and white bread sandwiches every single day. Nothing but UPFs.

Teachers are often very young and very silly. Perfect patsies for parroting the management speak from the “SLT” and meting out punishments without ever pausing to think or question anything that goes on around them.

How parents are not up in arms about this (and actually cheer this stuff on) is genuinely beyond me. Such a waste of tax and their children’s education. And futures, even. Because the system definitely won’t set
them up for 21st century life.

Your choices are, I think, to go private (but calculate the costs carefully and allow for a minimum of 5% annual increases on fees), or maybe move to Scotland where the system is far more humane.

Why does it have to be 'either or'?

No chairs should be thrown at anyone, ever, let alone in a school. But detentions/isolations for wrong shoes etc is not the way to go either.

So they miss all of the lesson and just write lines? Bit shit if you ask me.

DS is only 14 months, and I'm dreading him having to go to a school that's run like this . Someone on another thread recently said her DD got detention for not having her calculator in an English lesson.

When I was at the Moris Torez [sic] Institute in Moscow, we were taken to Leningrad for a fortnight and stayed in a teacher training college student hostel. I wonder whether we stayed in the same hostel? I was there in '81.

In Moscow, we'd asked to visit a school but we were told that that was not allowed.

@Guytheskiinstructor The system might seem more humane, but standards have fallen in Scotland (courtesy of the Curriculum for Excellence) and discipline is poor in many schools.

thats's a bit my point, why that constant need to dramatise absolutely everything?

Who is "upset" here? All I said was that detention for being late is neither SHAMING not a big deal. If kids over-react, surely there's something wrong?

The same way you are over-reacting, "mean girl", because I don't agree with you? Just chill, all that drama is not necessary, it's a storm in a teacup, so unnecessary.

Yes, zero tolerance on lateness, forgetfulness, untidiness etc

I knew when I read this that the school would definitely be part of the same trust as my kids' school. Just checked. I was right.

If you start sending kids to gardens, library to discipline them, they would be more inclined to do things which get them into detention.

In one UL school we visited we were told they have to do their work for three following subject lessons in silence in the “reset room” in order to be allowed to rejoin the rest of their classmates. There was a big window in the “reset room” so that the “naughty” kids could be supervised from behind glass. If they didn’t do their work in isolation it then proceeded to potential suspension.

It sounded awful, and despite all this panopticon surveillance not actually an environment conducive to learning. Not to mention the teachers having to pop in and out of their normal classes to set work for the pupils in “reset” — very distracting all round.

It was the 1960s when Tony Benn sent his children there. That's over 50 years ago.

A couple of Tories (Michael Gove, John Bercow) have done so more recently.

In between those times, I'm not aware of any politicians sending their kids there.

As I said upthread, so many myths...

Since 2022 the school has had 5 headteachers.

Five headteachers in three years.