AIBU to feel angrey after Holland Park School open morning?

[GentleMintCat]

I’m viewing a few secondary schools at the moment. We’ve seen some private ones (sadly not an option unless DD gets a huge bursary). Yesterday I went to see Holland Park School — which has always felt like our safest option since we live very close — but came out devastated and rather angry.

Yes, the grounds are gorgeous, with a shiny, modern building, a new sports pitch, and spacious classrooms with lovely views over Holland Park. But the atmosphere? Absolutely grim. The classrooms were deadly quiet — no energy, no spark, no laughter, no questions, no enthusiasm.

Alright, I guess that’s fine in maths or English, but even in drama, music, and art… in art, the children were like in a traditional exam setting, sitting at their desks, copying a dull sketch from the screen in complete silence, while the teacher walked around peering over their shoulders. I couldn’t sense a shred of creativity, joy, or curiosity in that room. It felt almost like a military camp. Even the bell sounded like a fire alarm — the sort you see in American prisons in films.

When I asked students what they loved about the school, they couldn’t answer. I rephrased and asked what was one thing they were excited about coming to school, but they seemed unsure. What they were actually excited to talk about was “refocus rooms,” detention room, and punishments. They really wanted us to see the detention room which was on the ground floor, a dark space with heavy black curtains where you’re sent for forgetting your planner, doodling in a workbook, wearing the wrong colour socks, missing a part of your uniform, or being two minutes late. This lovely, polite girl said she had already been there twice this year - once for doodling because she got carried away 'in a boring lesson' and another for forgetting her planner, which they have to carry with them at all times.

I went in Soviet school and honestly, even they didn’t have detention rooms. If anyone misbehaved, they would do extra fitness classes or some do some gardening and cleaning for school grounds, and parents were called in. I’m not saying that was better by any means, but honestly — how the hell have we normalised this? What are we thinking as a society, treating children like inmates inside schools, and then acting shocked when they go wild on the streets after being in this prison-like environment all day long?

All I want is a normal, happy school for my child. Is that too much to ask? And do I have to pay £30k a year to avoid this 'military silence + constant detentions'? Is that what we call a good education in the 21st century? I couldn’t stop thinking: what kind of young people will come out of this school environment — happy, curious, caring, loving, creative, enthusiastic and empathetic?

So which was the Soviet school you were in (as referenced in your first post)? Which of the former USSR republics was it in?

Why would you think that a room with nothing in it will help someone with ND. If anything it will have the opposite effect

One was maybe 5 years ago. The other left after breaking down in a meeting around 3/4 years ago.

Thank you for your comment — couldn’t agree more! We need more teachers like you, and more people speaking up and fighting to make schools safer and nicer places for all children.

OP are you interest In hearing about the other schools in the borough?

I don’t want to turn this into a discussion about Soviet schools, as that’s irrelevant. I only pointed out that even they didn’t have detention rooms — and they were grim enough, built on punishment and a culture of shaming.

The black curtain mention is odd because the curtains were surely open at the time you viewed the school. Therefore, they would hardly be noticeable.
There is a lot of glass in this school; surely they were a form of protection against the sun.
The primary school I attended had black curtains everywhere. They were black out curtains dating from WW2. I never saw them closed and in no way did they impact on my education.
Like many other posters, I am surprised you have so much to say so vehemently, based on a single visit to the school, especially as the arrangements are similar to many academy schools.
The KGB agent Alexander Lebedev sent his son to the school, Evgeny, who is now in the House of Lords, thanks to Boris Johnson.
I find your comparison with Russian schools tasteless. If you choose to live in the UK, you should not knock it.
I suspect you have some ulterior motive in writing your post.

Thank you for writing about this OP. My son's school was terrible and unfortunately I didn't figure it out until he started having panic attacks. Much better to know now.

Sadly most are. People running and working in schools like this need to be publicly shamed and pilloried. It's absolutely disgusting what they have done to secondary education.

That does sound grim and joyless particularly if you had good expectations. I am sure you will find a school with a better overall vibe.

Fwiw I looked at a secondary for gs and the show around was a disaster. Everything went wrong when I could tell they had tried hard to stage manage. Spirited pupils getting detentions, pissed off pupils in dance so funny, teachers pushing parents cars stuck in mud topped off with the viewing teacher passing out on the school driveway and being driven away in an ambulance.

What sort of ulterior motive are you envisioning the OP to have ?
There’s an awful lot wrong with many schools in the UK right now and many of us who care about the welfare and education of young people are choosing to speak up about it

"most in Holland Park will be well off"

Absolutely not the case. It's in a very wealthy area but, like most of inner London, the very wealthy live cheek by jowl with the very poor.

The wealthy send their children elsewhere.

Two of my lovely neighbours have (and had) teenagers at local academy and awful treatment of their children, esp one of them. She went from a little girl who loved and thrived in primary school, excelled in sports (she did sports also outside of school and was winning medals from a young age) and maths to a kid who became frustrated, unhappy and a pure hatred of school, within 2 years.

They treated her abysmally. Her mum being called to collect her kid for walking into the school corridor with her coat on (winter) and had not yet managed to put it in her locker. When she told the teacher she was about to put it away, she was suspended for back chat and breaking the rules of no coats on. This was the start of it. She was accused of doing something, mum again called up, girl was told to apologise. The girl denied it, teacher wouldn't listen and insisted in a written apology. Then they looked on the CCTV, which proved the girl was nowhere near the incident and it wasn't her. The teacher told her to still apologise! The kid was (rightfully) cross now, and said no, she is the one who should be apologised to. Another suspension for back chat. What does that teach a child? She was expelled, twice, for voicing her now utter frustration with the teachers when other issues happened, (such as being told off for wearing her tie too short), for her to be reinstated because upon appeal, the school had acted out of their guidance and expelled incorrectly, the head teacher was even suspended on the second one. They would also do things like keep her out of her games lessons as she was incredibly good at sport, as a way of punishment. I mean.. goodness me.

In the end, mum took her daughter out of the school because she was watching her kid get behind and so very unhappy and it was exhausting for her too, trying to fight the school. Daughter now goes to another school where kids are allowed to be kids and respect goes both ways with teacher and pupil. She's going to be sitting her GCSE maths a year early despite 2 years of disruption to her education, she is happy, she is working hard, she's not taking frustration out in the home anymore, all is good, finally.

I truly believe some of these schools are destroying education for children, and what should be some of their happiest times are becoming miserable. They just seem to want robots, but sadly not all kids can fit into that mould.

As another poster suggested, she coul be trying to stop other parents applying, to give her own DD a better chance.

Funnily enough reminds me of my school but I didn't mind it. We had detention rooms, strict uniform code, had to carry our planners around too, but it did set us up to be organised. Having children follow authority kept a level of respect and bullying down also - in fact I don't remember of an incident. The school policy handled it well. Although your description sounds a bit drab it's good they can have a level of control over teenagers who could run riot.

I’m a teacher and a friend of mine used to teach at this school, she left after one year as was horrified at the stringent way the school
was run - all desks had to be laid out the same, strict limits on lesson plans etc. Lots of other schools are not like this, I would keep looking!

Holland Park school is substantially oversubscribed which indicates that many many parents do not view the school in the way you do. You should ask the school about how they manage discipline and speak with other parents. Seems a little unfair to name and criticise them on a public forum without raising this with them and giving them an opportunity to answer your questions.

Ah. I wonder if things can change so much so quickly.

Ask them how many suspensions and expulsions they hand out too.

@GentleMintCat i'm curious about something

You say that the girl was excited to show you the detention room, which was lined with black curtains, etc

Was it just her who was really keen to show you this?

I'm wondering if children try to get sent there because it gives them a break from sensory overload

I found your post quite strangely phrased, but that was the thing that really jumped out at me. If the detention room or the refocus room or whatever is the quietest and most chill place there, that tells you a lot

I actually quite like school, but when I look back on it, I don't know how I managed - total sensory overload all the time.

I have 4 DC who have been to state schools in London in the last ten years. The youngest is in Year 7. Not a single one of them has ever had a detention in their life, and this definitely includes schools with academy status. If there were a “scary” detention room they had never been to, they would probably be excited to show a visitor too. So how many of these kids desperate to see this room actually went there?
I have no idea what Holland Park is like these days. It was the darling of Tony Benn and then Gove sent his kids there. Schools can go “down” quickly under different leadership. That is why you look around and we are lucky to get a look in and a full open days in this country.
It is like looking at houses. If you do not like it, do not send your DC there.
I do not believe the OP does not have other options. Maybe further afield, but this is London and the birth rate is down. There will be other options. Perhaps a bit of travel, but options nevertheless.
This cancel culture around certain comprehensives on MN is getting a bit much. If you cannot afford private school, suck it up or move out of London to some leafy area.

I have no idea? Please explain?

That is one of the most staggeringly naïve and privileged comments about schools I have ever heard (up against plenty of stiff competition). I have worked in a wide range of schools, including lovely, leafy independents and tough London comps. No, kids do not just magically behave themselves if you believe in them. That's a fairytale.

Wow you are really upset about this thread aren't you!! "Decent parents" is that you then I guess? All hail you and your mean girl posts 👏

You’ve seen snapshots of lessons. Being devasted and angry about orderly, calm, focused classrooms is ridiculous, unless you’ve not explained yourself fully. I’ve worked in schools where chairs were thrown at me and my colleagues. Now that’s something to be angry about.