Teacher conduct - clapping at DS

[NotUsually]

DS 13 got sent out of class today for talking to another student (friend) and not paying attention when he should have been.
He got a warning first.
He talked again to the same student a second time about 10 minutes later.
For this, he got sent out of the room to go in to isolation for the rest of the school day, followed by an hour after school detention.

As he got his stuff together and walked out of the room, the teacher started clapping at him. He said to DS "Well done you just got yourself an isolation and a detention" then clapped with his hands raised up above his head and carried on clapping at DS as he walked through the room and out of the door. Whilst the teacher was clapping, the other students joined in and started clapping too, and the teacher allowed this and carried on himself.

I've had dialogue with the school to confirm that DS was talking and to check whether he was doing anything more than this, and the teacher has confirmed that he was punished for talking when he should have been listening to the teacher, on 2 separate occasions in the lesson. Nothing more.

I accept that talking when he shouldn't have been talking and that this has received a punishment of being sent out, sent to isolation and given a 1 hour detention. But I've got a really big issue with the clapping. DS accepts he shouldn't have been talking and has aplogised about this and seems regretful for his actions. But he says the clapping from the teacher and other students whilst he walked through them all to leave the room made him feel humiliated and I've taken issue with this.

AIBU?

No need to apologise. At the end of the day you don’t owe us a reply, but it would be interesting to see the stance the school takes. I know at my school this would be taken seriously and considered completely unacceptable, and rightly so.

Every single child I’ve had in a classroom has talked at some point or another when they weren’t supposed to. Even the shy ones. Even the quiet ones. Even the really, really well behaved ones. More than once too.

I'm a former secondary school teacher, not retired but changed professions after it became way too stressful dealing with kids and parents and terrible behaviour. Talking when the teacher is talking used to be absolutely verboten, but in modern times this is actually some of the least problematic behaviour, although it continues to be extremely disruptive so it is important for the good of the group as a whole, and to set - albeit a bare minimum of courtesy and conduct - to have discipline in place. Now, I think the punishment was fine, and the clapping sounds odd to me, and a sign of a rather desperate tired teacher perhaps at their wits end. The teacher should not resort to humiliation, and should lead by example. I did occasionally use humour with persistent naughty boys (aged 16+), but never anything inappropriate or anything I felt was out of place.

If you raise this with the headteacher then that teacher will doubtless be in big big trouble as education is very much like a business these days where keeping parents happy is absolutely the first priority. I have seen this first hand. However, teachers must adhere to good conduct and if this is something that the teacher may be letting creep into his conduct, then it needs addressing. Obviously I have seen a lot from the inside of education where absolutely brilliant teachers, who haven't set a foot wrong, were put on review for things like not getting enough A*s from their students (even though in some cases it would have been clearly impossible to get), so it's important to take into consideration that modern education now has a layer of "managers" (this never used to exist) who sit in offices away from the mayhem of the classroom, and scrutinize exam results and statistics and basically are there to treat teachers almost like salespeople who need to reach a quota. It's such a shame, many of my colleagues who'd been in teaching for many more years than I had, really cursed these newly appointed middle managers.

I'm allowed an opinion. You're not my teacher so I don't need a telling off. I'm also not the only poster of ghis opinion do are you going to post essays to everyone?
He's not there to "talk to his pal", it's rude and inconsiderate of everyone else. You're minimising his poor behaviour by listing things he didn't do which are completely irrelevant. And we wonder why the kids have such bad attitudes with parents like this at home 🙄

You’re allowed an opinion and so are the people that respond to you, that’s how it works.

Yes, I am a teacher and it's important to lead by example. I remember I had a very sarcastic primary school teacher and it really did knock kids back and that was back in the 1980s when behaviour wasn't nearly as bad as it is today and parents were much stricter with their kids.

@LT1982 - in your opinion, is it good teaching practice to humiliate a child? I have no argument with this boy getting the appropriate sanction for talking in the lesson, and carrying on after being told off - but the humiliation was unnecessary and, frankly, bullying.

Id agree with this - it's important to hear from someone who was there. I've also experienced furious parents who have clearly been told lies by their kids. Once I had one who I asked to take his earphones out. Obviously you can't have kids listening to music in your class. I had a very nasty father point his finger at me and said his son was too afraid to come to my class since I asked him not to listen to his music. Imagine. This is the 21st century world we live in.

Good luck OP, I agree with you.

The teacher sounds like a bully.

That does sound bad. It sounds as though OP is approaching this calmly and methodically though.

Fairly low bar for humiliation. Perhaps the teacher was feeling humiliated that the lad continued to ignore his efforts to deliver a lesson. And perhaps he won't be as quick to be chatting in the classroom next time, everyones a winner, even himself.

Completely unacceptable and extremely unprofessional. Regardless of what your son did, there was absolutely no need to sarcastically clap him. The teacher needs to be spoken to. Humiliating students will get him nowhere.

I don’t understand why a lot of the comments are talking about not knowing the whole story. Unless the boy is lying about the clapping bit, there’s actually nothing more to clarify. No matter what the boy did, or how many times he spoke, or how much of a pain in the arse he was, the teacher shouldn’t have clapped. End of.

You quoted me, so I’m snapping back. You can have an opinion. And it’s not a very nice one. You clearly have little understanding of education, good practice or how teenagers think and work. Your opinion is harmful and dangerous. As are the opinions of all on this thread defending this bully boy teacher. Consider yourself told off again!

If the other students clapped then it sounds like your son is a real problem in class. It’s very rare for students to support a teacher like that so I’m really sorry but can only assume he is a massive distraction in class and the other students are just bored with it now.

he can learn from it and not do it again.

It’s not that rare. Any excuse for a sanctioned ruckus (and piss taking), plus herd mentality.

I think that’s a strong misunderstanding of teenage behaviour. Some will have joined in for the fun of it, for the distraction and to cause a bit of mild chaos, some because the teacher told them to, some because they don’t want to be on the receiving end themselves of a bullying teacher’s humiliation, and some, like the teacher, will be enjoying humiliating somebody.

I agree

but being told off once surely would have been enough esp for a shy kid

but nope. He did it again

And some bored with a student who is a pain.

As a retired teacher this really does concern me. Apart from humiliating your son, his teacher has undermined the entire school discipline policy. There is enough bullying in schools without teaching staff encouraging students to ridicule their classmate. I'd suggest a letter to the headteacher, taking the same objective tone as your post, adding that you are concerned about your son's behaving and are doing your utmost to reinforce standards set by the school but feel the teacher has let the school down on this occasion. Conclude with a paragraph requesting a meeting to discuss this incident. You do have a very strong case. There are many reasons for disruptive classroom behaviour in young people and as professionals, we take a professional approach in management. Whilst this behaviour may be forgivable in young immature persons, an abuse of power on the part of the teacher is not forgivable.

It's not on. It really isn't. Teachers should know better.

We have friends whose teacher sent a text message to the mother calling their child a wanker. It seems society is normalising language and behaviour that should never be allowed by teachers.

Firstly sorry for boy humiliation is terrible but hearing the stories of the way children, not all, treat their teacher many of which have left through bullying, water thrown over them. I can see both sides. It's usually the teacher who gets it in the neck but being told once ok, but doing it again. I do hope he is OK but think about what the teachers put upbwith everyday.

Whilst the process to ban corporal punishment in UK schools did begin almost 40 years ago, with the 1986 Education Act, it took 12 years before it was banned from all schools in England and Wales. Scotland didn't follow until 2000 and NI 2003.
Qualified teacher here and, whilst it wouldn't have been my approach, you also can't be sure how much is truth or deflection tactic. Bottom line is maybe the kid will benefit from a dose of humility.

And I didn't "scrape" my degree, I got first class honours. And distinction on my PGCE, you condescending....

Maybe you should have led your post with the fact that you hate this particular PE teacher based on what your kid has reported them saying and for being childish, uncouth and indulging in poorly postured man-spreading. Just go stalk him on Facebook and see what incendiary posts he's made recently, which you can screenshot to get him cancelled.

Why would she do that? It sounds as though she’s only had any conversation, regarding this teacher, with the school due to this specific incident, and only then after initial discussion with the teacher.

I think the entire punishment is extreme. Even the detention. What have put schools become? Psychological prison camps. I've never heard anything so ridiculous in all my life and I find it quite horrifying the way some parents are willing to accept this kind of 'discipline'
No wonder so many children suffer with anxiety and stress. Human beings have the urge to talk to their friends Ok.he did it after he was told not to but a warning of a detention should be enough. If he did it a 3rd time then get a detention or extra homework or something. To be sent out of the class for something so mild and ordinary and then to face ritual humiliations of it is disgusting.
I think something needs to be done about schools and teachers enforcing these extremist regimes. It's become absurd and frightening