Day of Dad’s funeral; Council demand Mum sell her house day after

[Supersimkin7]

Buried Dad Tuesday.

Mum, 88, Parkinson’s, lost her DH of 60
years. She’s shaking with terror today.

I had hoped Social Services would give Mum 24 hours after her husband’s funeral before calling and demanding she sell her house and be moved to a care home asap, house money to be controlled by council, but it was not to be.

SS want permission from her DC (me and DB) to move her asap - we’ve got a month left of private carers. Mum & Dad have spent £650k of their and our money on care. DM is horribly, painfully disabled and needs 24hr care. There’s £0 left.

I told the social worker before funeral that we wanted DM at home for a while before any more major life changes, in case the shock kills her.

SS know Dad died. They know his will is wrongly written and we can’t do equity release as a result.

SS know we can’t pay for more private care, and that they’ll have to fork out for a couple of months respite care with round the clock carers if she at home.

But they rang DB the morning after the funeral to say they wouldn’t provide any care beyond a toilet break once every eight hours.

DM ran a charity for our part of London for 40 years. She worked tirelessly for locals and newcomers alike for a tiny salary. As net contributors to society go, she’s right up
there.

We all know councils lick their lips at the prospect of getting the cash from a London house.

But AIBU - are these social workers being cruel, greedy and dangerous?

I think this is probably it. Mum used to be self-funding, isn't now. Assessment has been done and she needs full-time care. Safest and cheapest in a care home.

And OP I know it looks like SS want houses but SS funding is completely broken. It's funding care, not SWs or SS departments. SWs IME work very hard to get care for those that can't pay. Your mum can, because of the house. FT care is so so expensive and there isn't the money to pay for it unless people who can pay, do. And equity release is dreadful.

So sorry for your loss.

Those piling on the op please remember she is newly bereaved and councils can and are often this callous so please came down a bit.

Send condolences op xxxx

I guess the reference to equity release is because if that were possible, DM could use it to fund private care allowing her to stay at home for longer? And maybe the will reference is because DF didn't leave his share of the house to DM but instead a life interest?

OP I'm sorry for your loss. Would DM actually be safe at home with private carers and no DF?

What an unimaginably awful day OP.

I hope you manage to find a resolution soon 💐

Seconding the suggestion of a Deferred Payment Arrangement. This was set up for my mum when she had to go onto a care home, and meant we had time to sort through the house and carry out a some repairs before it went on the market. The money from the sale was not ‘controlled by the council’ - we paid the money due for those first months of care, then the remainder went into my mum’s bank account, though it was of course used for her care costs for the next few years.

It sounds as though that you have got a standard letter about paying for care or the possibility of your mum moving into a care home (did your dad provide some care for her?), but it is obviously overwhelming. Can you provide more details of how you’ve been paying for her care so far and what the letter actually says?

The council are trying to help. They can't force her to sell up. But, having assets, she can't force them to provide care. If not done already, see Citizens Advice, Age UK etc, and look into NHS continuing care.

If your mother cannot live at home without 24/7 care she will be offered respite care but it will be in a care home, they will not fund in home care generally. They will expect the house to be put on the market if she has a permanent place in the care home. The reason it’s so quick is you say she cannot be in the house alone, what do you suggest.

I don't understand the part about your father's will being incorrectly written? What is incorrect, and who made the error in writing it?

OP's having a shitty old time of it by the sound of things so perhaps a little kindness and patience is in order

When my mother in law went into a home, the council just took a charge on her property and got their money back after she died, from her estate. Have you asked if they can do that?

Although it seems callous, I understand. Councils are at breaking point, unable to give life-saving services. It is awful but it's not SWs and Council employees squeezing everyone.

It is awful for service users, and I can tell you Council workers feel shit about that.

I’m very sorry for your loss and this is indeed bad timing. However it’s most unlikely to be anything other than an unfortunate coincidence that the call was made to coincide with the funeral.

unfortunately you cannot expect SS to find full time care to allow your DM to adjust. It’s financially unviable. She will either have to cope with what they can offer or have family in to help if she wants to stay at home.

Your best option is to work with them to find a suitable placement ( it could be respite and lead to her moving elsewhere later). The finance teams are quite tough. Very few people want to rush to sell and empty their parent’s home but the reality is that the funds are required.

Wishing you well at a horrible time.

So sorry to hear this, what a horrible situation
Has anyone mentioned a lifetime mortgage? Sorry not had time to read whole thread.

My Mum's financial adviser mentioned this to us at our last meeting, giving an example of a man who lived at home with care needs, his wife died and he wanted to stay at home with carers. So his family found a live in carer, he moved in to the top floor and the man moved to ground floor with a few adaptations.

Each year he took out a £30k lifetime mortgage rather than taking out a big lump at the offset and accruing interest on all of it. This paid for the carer and his pension paid his living costs including the interest on the mortgage. When he eventually died the house was sold and the mortgage paid off and what was left went to his estate. As he paid the interest the amount repayable was £30k x the no of years he lived.

It's similar to what was called equity release but is now properly regulated and the rates are not outrageous as they used to be. It would mean you could free up some cash for carers relatively fast too. If she did have to go into a care home more could be released.

So she lives in an expensive house but can’t afford the carriage needs, then the house needs to be sold, no idea why you thought it wouldn’t happen!

I’m so sorry for your loss.

But I’m afraid some of your story doesn’t make sense. Why was your dad’s will written wrongly?

if your parents had a council house, how have they spent 650k on care?

Who owns their house?

why are social workers involved?

I hope you manage to resolve this so your mum can rest.

I’m sorry for your loss OP.

But I don’t quite understand OP. When they were both alive the council would not be able to take capital from the house. Now one remains, they can. Is that what is happening? I know it feels like an assault getting an official correspondence so soon after the funeral but it’s not personal, these letters are largely system generated. We’re dealing with similar at the moment, and you have to remember that to anyone not intimately connected, you and your family are just numbers.

Had to check I hadn't missed the "harassing and insulting"

They are asking questions and trying to make sense of what's happening to be able to help

Sorry for your loss OP. I assume your dad died a few weeks ago? We had a similar issue but were given two weeks after the death to sort things out: I thought that was reasonable TBH. The rest of your post needs some explaining though as it is very unclear, but I'm sorry you are so anxious about things.

This doesn’t make a great deal of sense. So your DM was fully disabled and your DF who had Parkinson’s was looking after her together with the help of paid carers. Who was looking after your DF? Does your DM have capacity? If not, does anyone have LPA for health for her? If she has no money and needs 24/7 care, the LA will not fund this and she will need to go into a care home. The alternative is that they put a charge against the house in order for her to remain there and then once she passes away the house is sold and the money paid back to the LA.
It may well be unfortunate that SS called the day after your DFs funeral, however time is now of the essence regarding your DM. Who’s looking after her now?

Presumably because they are providing / funding care going forward

Is the will issue being that they had mirror wills rather than tenants in common ?

My parents have done the latter (dad has dementia) and it protects mum's half of their estate from being swallowed up IF he needs to go into a home

I am sorry for your position but
"SS know we can’t pay for more private care, and that they’ll have to fork out for a couple of months respite care with round the clock carers if she at home." that isn't true.

Social Services will not be paying for a couple of months respite care with round the clock carers. If you want that for your mother, you must pay for that. There is no money in social care budgets to pay for what you want, and no legal duty to provide what you want. So either you go down the route of paying, or you must work with social services to find the best available option - and with 24 hour care needs that is a care home. Unless, of course, you are going to provide the care yourself.

There is a lot of unclear stuff here, especially around the "wrongly written will", but the lack of clarity won't change the fact that if you want paid for social care, this is what everyone gets, and there are no special circumstances. It would be wonderful if everyone could get the social care they want and need in their later years, but there simply isn't the money to pay for it.

Councils are not licking their lips, but if they can't safely be cared for in their own home, it'll be in the best interest of your DM to move into a care home. If they own a property, you will have the option of a deferred payment agreement, where they'll basically register a financial interest in the property, then when the house is sold when your mother passes away , they will need to be paid for the care they have paid for in the mean time, the rest of the money from the sale can be passed on to whoever is stated in the will. You should get a 12 week property disregard when she moves into the care home where she only needs to pay a contribution to her care based on her income. If you don't want to do the deferred payment agreement, you'll want to get it sold asap. The council won't profit from your mother being in residential care

If your DF needs to go into a care home whilst your DM is still living at home then the house isn’t included in a financial assessment anyway, no matter who owns it.

I'm sorry , OP, that sounds upsetting. It sounds like there's a lot of history that you haven't posted completely in a stressful circumstance which some PPs have fixated on.

There may be some things you can do to give your family some time to take stock.

Have they put their proposals in writing. If not, ask them to post them to your mother.

Have they completed a recent care needs assessment. Your DM may be stable but they will need to work on up to date information.

It can take time to prepare a house for sale, sort out estate agents and so on.

Perhaps a chat with specialist charities or specialist solicitors if you can afford.

It may be, after taking stock, now your DF has passed that a place in a suitable care home might meet your DM's needs better than care at home. If so, some time might help trying to nudge SS to productive activities like selecting the appropriate home (visits, discuss with DNs/ACPs and others with local knowledge can help) and planning the move.

Good luck.