Private school grief

[Movingonfeelssad]

Hey,
just came to the realization that private school for my child will not happen. Local State is good, cannot complain really, he will be fine, but will always wonder what doors private would have opened. We can afford it, mainly because of my income and this created so much pain in my husband that I decided to let it go. As a self made person from a very underprivileged background, it took so much grit and determination to get to where I am right now financially and I find it slightly challenging not to aim for the best for my child. But the value for money makes no sense with today’s fees and increasing costs, lifestyle creep etc…
what is the point of being successful as a professional if I need to hide it all the time? And before you say, yes my husband is very supportive of me otherwise…

Honestly you’re being pedantic. I did say “when I was interviewing” it was many years ago. I’m in a completely different field now. I was trying to ease OP fears about one aspect of her worries.

So basically you can't. Those schools have all been around for many many years.
You still haven't answered how you would tell a child who had been educated in both state and independent schools and how their personal skills would compare.

It's just yet more prejudiced bollocks but thanks for confirming.

Why are you attacking me? I wasn’t being rude, mean or prejudiced. I was trying to help OP from my own personal experience. I think you ought to consider how you conduct yourself online.

I would save the money you would have spent and buy the DC a house when the time comes - it will benefit them more in the long run

Is this "connections" thing really a thing anymore in the world of work - with HR gatekeeping everything, institution blind recruitment etc.

After all - most jobs need a degree - and universities are generally "state" aren't they?

I'm not attacking you, I'm challenging a sweeping statement. You are unable to back up that statement with further Qs etc. That's not attacking you but if you feel it is then maybe MN isn't for you.

You’ve sworn at me: that’s attacking in my book. You’ve been extremely rude. I clearly wouldn’t be able to distinguish as people don’t tend to put childminder, nursery and primary on their cvs. It was obviously a long time ago as their schooling was still allowed to be there.

I’ll heed your advice and come away from MN. Thank you for starting my day so nicely for me, and reminding me that the internet is not a safe place for me to be. I’ll head back out to the real world now where I don’t get cursed at!

So then don't say ridiculous sweeping comments like you did. I didn't swear at you, I said a statement was bollocks. That's not swearing at you.

I also never mentioned childminder/nursery. I clearly said primary/secondary + 6th form because the secondary + 6th form ARE on application forms. You said you could identify particular schools.

Thank you for the clarification on how my lived experience and thoughts are wrong. I’m sorry that you’re so angry, it must be hard to be so close to losing your temper all the time. I can recommend journaling and mindfulness as a start point.

So now you are being passive aggressive?? Yet I'm the one in the wrong. Take your own advice and stop engaging

muddymuckymoody · Today 10:25
It’s not always the case. In my experience of interviewing graduates for roles: most of the state secondary educated candidates trumped the privately educated in people skills

Maybe you can answer my question which has so far gone unanswered: most posters on here say state education is better than private; privately educated people are traumatised by their experiences; the pupils are entitled; their parents have wasted their money; and you have said state school educated candidates had superior people skills so more employable.
So why is private education ‘buying privilege’?

I have met people who have gone to all types of schools, some have been traumatised by bullying at both state and private schools and one was traumatised by boarding school. In that case his parents lived in Australia and he was at boarding school in England so he had some abandonment issues. The issues were not causes by the school. Boarding schools have come a long way and dd3's friend is a weekly boarder so still goes home every weekend.

Dd1 has awesome people skills - state primary, private secondary, her dh's are pretty good, private all the way. They are both doctors.
Both my elder dd feel that going to state primary made them more streetwise than their exclusively privately educated peers and plan on doing the same for their dc. Both of their dhs only went to private schools (one to a Clarendon one - never heard that term before) and agree with them.

‘It’s not always the case. In my experience of interviewing graduates for roles: most of the state secondary educated candidates trumped the privately educated in people skills’

agreed. Can’t remember the last time a private educated candidate was hired into the grad programmes - certainly not in the last few years.

Yet that PP couldn't tell me how they could positively identify which school someone went to OR how they would classify someone who had been to both state AND independent schools.

Maybe you can explain? Are you looking up schools prior to interview? How far do you go back and how would you assess someone who went to independent secondary then state 6th form because that's incredibly common.

These conversations are so ridiculous. Every child is different no matter which school they go to. Entitled people in state and private. Oiks too. Lovely, well rounded kind individuals in both. Ambitious, driven people from all backgrounds. Kids with real resilience because of life experiences or natural or learnt grit in both. People making huge generalisations have no understanding of humans. In other countries, many of which have the same levels or higher of private v state education just don't spend so long naval gazing. Generally their state education is better across the board, maybe that's why. State education here can be excellent or truly sh*t.

I agree that extras (ie uniform, music classes etc) can cost quite a lot so need to be factored in. Fees are high. Vat makes them unaffordable for us. Keeping up with the Joneses in my experience nonsense. Could easily be worse in state in wealthy catchments and more ready cash.

These discussions are quite boring but I feel the need to come on from time to time to try to counter some of the generalisations but honestly have much better things to do with my weekend. I need to turn off the mumsnet notifications

agreed. Can’t remember the last time a private educated candidate was hired into the grad programmes - certainly not in the last few years.

@callmemessy for what line of work are these grad programmes?

Ds went to a public school, just graduated from a Russell group university with a first class MEng to go with his A*s and 8s and 9s. His people skills aren't great as he's ND but at least his secondary schooling wasn't marred by years of bullying. He had delayed speech and an IEP with a one to one at primary - he applied to 3 internships and is currently doing one (rejected by one after much deliberating and the other decided not to offer an internship this year). He only applied for one permanent job and he got it, starting when he finishes the internship (different organisation). The university wanted him to do a PhD so he was late applying. Maybe it's good that most job applications are judged blind now.

My brother got bullied relentlessly at his public school

He only spoke about it later. I am not saying your son was bullied, and I am glad he wasn't. But you can't buy freedom from bullies, they exist in every strand of society

I agree, @Allthefruit - I was bullied to the point of suicidal thoughts at state school, and dh was bullied at his first private school, but flourished at the second private school his parents moved him to - where he wasn’t bullied.

Looking at academic results, dh and I both have a similar set of O and A level grades, we both have a professional qualification - he’s an engineer and I’m a registered general nurse - and we both have 2:1s. But I am convinced he has succeeded more in life because he didn’t get bullied at the second school, which massively boosted his confidence, whereas my parents left me prey to the bullies until I left secondary school for sixth form college - and it was too late by then - the damage was already done.

But the lesson I take from all this isn’t necessarily that it is private school that makes the difference - I think it’s the ethos of the school, and input from the parents. My dad did help with the academic side - he was a maths teacher so I did get help with that - but my mum gave me no support or help with the bullying. Dh’s mum saw he was being bullied, and the effect it was having on him, and took prompt action to move him.

Maybe it's good that most job applications are judged blind now.
@Manthide

Thats interesting as according to @callmemessy, her graduate programmes only hire state educated applicants.
There’s another poster that pops up from time to time who also will not hire privately educated applicants but as he/she won’t answer any questions as to their company’s hiring policies, I’m not sure if it’s not a fantasy.
The other thing that’s odd given that apparently employers shy away from privately educated employees, is that all my ds’s friends from his fee paying school have got good jobs and as far as I know found work quite quickly after leaving university.
Maybe they are an anomaly.

@38thparallel I was talking to an Indian masters student yesterday who has to work to fund her course. She was surprised when I said ds had a job so soon after graduating as she was also working at McDonald's and most of her fellow workers were UK graduates struggling to find a job. We have no 'contacts' so definitely not due to networking!

Or maybe, just maybe some people are not being completely honest 🤔

@Allthefruit ds was bullied all the way through state primary school and it was escalating. There were a couple of small incidents when ds first started prep school but they were dealt with immediately and he really bloomed there. They seemed to really get him and encouraged him in his music (he ended up leading the school orchestra), pushed him to find sports he enjoyed (rowing, fives) and he also thrived in the ccf. Dd2 also told me years later that she was bullied at her state primary school because she was clever.

Exactly that, I have no strong feelings either way about state or private, theres good and bad in both and different schools will suit different children as well. One of my children goes to private school and the other two to state, because different schools were right for them.

But it's hugely naive to just assume that if you pay for schooling you are paying for a a school life that is free from difficulty. I can only assume people who think like that didn't go to private school themselves and are "first generation" wealthy.

There have been some awful, recent , safeguarding scandals involving private schools. Others that are hushed up. And of course bullying can happen in the private school sector too - although it may be less overt and violent and more social exclusion and horrible comments. There are also drug problems in the private sector too -not least because some children have endless access to cash. And my friends who went to private boarding school had hair raising stories about drinking and sexual exploits that were like nothing I encountered at my (admittedly very MC) state school.

There was the child who attacked other children at boarding school while they slept not long ago.

The Winchester College student who closed the entire motorway throwing firebombs off a bridge (and as I googled that story I came across another awful story where a Winchester College teacher admitted to kissing and cuddling a student at school just over a decade ago).

Wherever your child goes to school they could face issues, you can't buy your way out of that. Parenting plays a huge influence in their life too and we can never just complacently assume their school life is safe and easy.

I think it just varies from school to school

DS has never experienced bullying at state school and he's gliding along at the top of top set. I also was similar and never experienced bullying for being clever. But I had lovely bunch of friends so I was lucky. DD is at a private school that has good dyslexia provision and she is also happy

My brother was horribly bullied at private school, and it was a highly respected one. I also experienced bullying at my private school, all the girls were lovely except for one really toxic nasty girl who was mean to everyone. I hated the atmosphere she created,.left and thrived at state school (great friends and straight As).